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Thread: L-M349 L1b1 - any thoughts?

  1. #1
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    L-M349 L1b1 - any thoughts?

    Primarily seems to be Western Asian, but with so many turning up in Europe - along the Mediterranean, Italy, Portugal, and the Central European Rhine-Danube Cluster, any thoughts on how and when it 1) originated, and 2) distributed through Europe?
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
    mtDNA: H6a1a8 (Norfolk at Generation 9)
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  2. #2
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    In my opinion in middle neolethic it expanded from Levant to eastern Medeterenian zone toward inner and southern europe as a result of one of neolethic expansions. But we need to know whats the TMRCA of subclades under M349 which is unique to Europe to understand exact time.

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     A Norfolk L-M20 (08-24-2016)

  4. #3
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    The two L-M349 lines tested for Big Y (neither uploaded to Yfull, unfortunately) are separated by about 7,000 - 8,000 years so the branch itself is definitely Neolithic. It probably spread to Europe in more than one expansion, but numbers are so small as to be almost undetectable in academic research. Surprisingly, no L-M349 was found in the major study of Sardinian DNA (the Ls were all either L-L595 or L-M27). One L-M349 sample was found in a 2006 paper on Iran.

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     A Norfolk L-M20 (08-27-2016)

  6. #4
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    We should not forget that some L-M349 samples have certain Jewish ancestry. I agree with Gareth. L-M349 have more than one expansion to Europe.
    Y-dna: L1b*-M317 (Pontic Cluster, PH8+) Anatolian or Caucasian lineage
    (Turkish, Greek, Armenian, Hemshin, Laz, Megrelian, Georgian, Chechen, Kabardin, Bulgarian, Macedonian, Iraqi matches)


    Autosomal Summary
     
    3/4 West Asian
    1/4 Central Asian

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     A Norfolk L-M20 (08-27-2016),  Anabasis (08-28-2016)

  8. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Caspian View Post
    We should not forget that some L-M349 samples have certain Jewish ancestry. I agree with Gareth. L-M349 have more than one expansion to Europe.
    I have spotted on the 23andMe forums, that some L-M349 (many of who most probably do not test or record their Y-DNA further), do claim paternal Ashkenazi ancestry, although clearly by the spread, it is far from always the case.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
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     Anabasis (08-28-2016)

  10. #6
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    So recently I got a predicted L-M20 in FTDNA, and after purchasing the L-M20 SNP pack I got that I am positive for M349>FGC36845 but negative for both its subclades PAGES00116 & BY13005. When I look at the results in the Y-haplogroup L project it seems that those who got the same results are all Italian, Swiss/German and one Swedish guy, which is a bit of a surprise to me since my ancestors are Marsh Arabs from the Maysan Governorate. Thoguh it's possible that if more Arabs tested themselves they'll start to show up in this group.

    I also have 2 STR matches with two Italian men (Genetic distance = 1 at 12 markers) though they haven't tested which subgroup they belong to. Is it safe to assume that they belong to the same group?

    And does anyone know an estimate of the MRCA for L-FGC36845?
    known ancestry
    25% polish + 25% baghdadi arab + 50% marsh arab

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     A Norfolk L-M20 (06-16-2017),  Agamemnon (07-30-2017)

  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmana View Post
    So recently I got a predicted L-M20 in FTDNA, and after purchasing the L-M20 SNP pack I got that I am positive for M349>FGC36845 but negative for both its subclades PAGES00116 & BY13005. When I look at the results in the Y-haplogroup L project it seems that those who got the same results are all Italian, Swiss/German and one Swedish guy, which is a bit of a surprise to me since my ancestors are Marsh Arabs from the Maysan Governorate. Thoguh it's possible that if more Arabs tested themselves they'll start to show up in this group.

    I also have 2 STR matches with two Italian men (Genetic distance = 1 at 12 markers) though they haven't tested which subgroup they belong to. Is it safe to assume that they belong to the same group?

    And does anyone know an estimate of the MRCA for L-FGC36845?
    Thanks for testing. FGC36845 is just one level below M349 and is almost as old - so nearly 7,000 years old! The structure of the tree below this isn't clear yet, there seem to be lots of old and rare branches scattered over Europe and the Middle East. The two people you match 11/12 are close matches to each other at 67 markers but not to you. They may well belong to L-FGC36845 but a different subgroup.

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     A Norfolk L-M20 (06-16-2017),  Anabasis (06-16-2017),  dmana (06-16-2017)

  14. #8
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    Hi, I have a friend of Cuban paternal descent whose Y-DNA results put him in predicted L-M20. This was really shocking to me (when he told me L-M20, I said "L? L??? L?????"), as I had always thought that L was confined mostly to Pakistan and India, with some scattered members in Persia, Anatolia, or the Middle East... ...I didn't realize that L occurred at very low frequency in Europe and as far away as Cuba. Big Y refined his haplogroup from predicted L-M20 to confirmed L-FGC36845. Just curious why this SNP doesn't appear on ISOGG's L tree? I also couldn't find it in Yfull's L tree. Is there an alternate name? Is it simply too new to be listed yet?

    Am I understanding correctly that FGC36845 is a parallel branch to SK1414 under L-M349?

    Upon requesting the BAM file, the response was something along the lines of "We are currently running a system-wide Big Y update and are not processing BAM file requests". As soon as that condition changes, we will send the BAM to FullGenomes for analysis. I'm really excited to learn more about this apparently quite unusual ~7000-year-old haplogroup.

  15. #9
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    If he is FGC36845 then he is M349. i reccomend you to have yfull analysis as far as there are more L1b samples on the tree. You can make yfull.analysis with vcf file.

  16. #10
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    I know of an L-M349 in Portugal, and checking the Project: https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults L-M349 does indeed crop up in Spain and Portugal. It appears to have been in Europe some time where it is the most common Y hg L.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
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