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Thread: L-M349 L1b1 - any thoughts?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik_Maher View Post
    Hi, I have a friend of Cuban paternal descent whose Y-DNA results put him in predicted L-M20. This was really shocking to me (when he told me L-M20, I said "L? L??? L?????"), as I had always thought that L was confined mostly to Pakistan and India, with some scattered members in Persia, Anatolia, or the Middle East... ...I didn't realize that L occurred at very low frequency in Europe and as far away as Cuba. Big Y refined his haplogroup from predicted L-M20 to confirmed L-FGC36845. Just curious why this SNP doesn't appear on ISOGG's L tree? I also couldn't find it in Yfull's L tree. Is there an alternate name? Is it simply too new to be listed yet?

    Am I understanding correctly that FGC36845 is a parallel branch to SK1414 under L-M349?

    Upon requesting the BAM file, the response was something along the lines of "We are currently running a system-wide Big Y update and are not processing BAM file requests". As soon as that condition changes, we will send the BAM to FullGenomes for analysis. I'm really excited to learn more about this apparently quite unusual ~7000-year-old haplogroup.

    On the YFull tree, FGC36845 should connect YF11716 and YF08142 (currently both L-BY12542* = L-M349*) when the next version of the tree is published.
    On the ISOGG tree, FGC36845 needs to be added to sit between M349 and Page113 (on my very long "to do" list).
    In summary, L-M349 has 3 known branches:
    L-FGC36845 - 7,000 years old, found all over Europe and the Middle East (one person claims Mongolian ancestry but I'm sceptical about that) - L-Page113 is a minor sub branch
    L-B374 (Rhine-Danube-Volga) - age unknown (guesstimate 2,000 - 3,000 years), found in Central Europe (particularly just north of the Alps) and Volga Tatars
    L-Y31183 - 1,300 years old, seen only in Lebanon
    We also have one kit from Armenia who is negative for all three branches.

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to GarethH For This Useful Post:

     A Norfolk L-M20 (02-22-2018)

  3. #12
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    Thank you for your responses and the Project link. Fascinating, especially about the lone Armenian - and hoping another person turns up in his paragroup! So, let me see if I understand this correctly. While L is uncommon in Europe, L-M349 is the most common L in Europe.

    Looking at the L Project, there appear to be about 25 confirmed or predicted FGC36845 members, about 35 confirmed or predicted B374 members, somewhere between 2 and 8 confirmed or predicted Y31183 members (I'm not sure how to interpret some of the Lebanon members' haplogroup listings), and about 22 confirmed or predicted SK1414 members at the current time. There are about 5 members from either Spain, Portugal, or Cuba listed under "L-M349 or L-FGC36845 not clustered". Quite interesting. We will send the VCF to Yfull for analysis as advised, and will upgrade the Yfull, and do additional Full Genomes analysis, once the BAM is available.

    If any relatively-untested FGC36845 members of Iberian direct-male-line origin are interested in taking a Full Genomes Y Elite test, PM me. I'd like to contribute towards your test to try to discover more about FGC36845's phylogeny.

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to Erik_Maher For This Useful Post:

     A Norfolk L-M20 (02-22-2018)

  5. #13
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    In the new version of the yfull tree, L-FGC36845 has TMRCA of 5500 ybp.

    yfullnew.png

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/L/

    It differs slightly from the 7000 ybp figure given before.
    known ancestry
    25% polish + 25% baghdadi arab + 50% marsh arab

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to dmana For This Useful Post:

     A Norfolk L-M20 (04-04-2018),  Anabasis (04-04-2018)

  7. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmana View Post
    In the new version of the yfull tree, L-FGC36845 has TMRCA of 5500 ybp.

    yfullnew.png

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/L/

    It differs slightly from the 7000 ybp figure given before.
    Although there are now 3 kits grouped as L-FGC36845, YFull has a BAM file for only one of them so the age estimate is based on the SNPs for just that kit. It just happens that he has the lowest number of private SNPs of all the L-FGC36845 kits so I think the age is somewhat under estimated. The average number of private SNPs per kit is 47 which gives an estimated TMRCA of 6,800 ybp.

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to GarethH For This Useful Post:

     A Norfolk L-M20 (04-04-2018),  Anabasis (04-05-2018),  dmana (04-04-2018)

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