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Thread: Genomic Misfit?

  1. #1
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    Genomic Misfit?

    I've had a battery of tests done by GeneBase, yDNA 20 markers, Backbone Test, Autosomal and mtDNA HVR1 and HVR2.

    The yDNA Tests show that I carry D (M174+). I had yDNA Tests done by FTDNA (37 Markers) which shows that I carry D2a1b (D-IMS-JST022457). I haven't got a clue what that last part means. Modern day Hpg D is almost exclusively Japanese, although 5000 ybp it was present in Northern Mongolia, Tibet and China.

    I was born in Australia, have fair skin, blue eyes, brown hair and European or Caucasian facial features. My understanding is that the yDNA Hpg D is "deep ancestry"-so why don't I look at all Japanese? If, over hundreds or thousands of years other yDNA has entered my blood line, why does it not show up? Is it all down to mutations?

    It must be possible to have more than one yDNA coursing through ones system, musn't it?

  2. #2
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    All it took was 1 person to get that Y chromosome you have. Phenotype can change very rapidly, but especially over time. I find nothing shocking about your result.
    Genographic Project: N52850
    GenBank: EU784076
    Z62+ Z60+ Z59+ Z58+ P38+ P30+ P19+ M307+ M258+ M253+ M170+ Z73- Z140- P37.2- P259- P109- M72- M26- M227- M223- M21- M161- L803- L573- L338- L22- L211- L1248- L1247-

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  4. #3
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    @Ilmari

    "All it took was 1 person to get that Y chromosome you have. Phenotype can change very rapidly, but especially over time. I find nothing shocking about your result".

    How does the phenotype change-what causes the change?

  5. #4
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    Thousands of other ancestors with potentially different phenotypes.
    Genographic Project: N52850
    GenBank: EU784076
    Z62+ Z60+ Z59+ Z58+ P38+ P30+ P19+ M307+ M258+ M253+ M170+ Z73- Z140- P37.2- P259- P109- M72- M26- M227- M223- M21- M161- L803- L573- L338- L22- L211- L1248- L1247-

  6. #5
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    Ilmari:

    I'm new to all of this-but I understand what you're saying. Those thousands of ancestors would also have potentially had different DNA so why doesn't this show up in my yDNA test results?

  7. #6
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    Your Y DNA is only coming from your father and all of the fathers of his direct Y DNA ancestors before him, but you are a product of all of your other ancestors as well, you have 1 father and 1 mother, but you have 4 grandparents and 8 great-grandparents and 16 great-great-grandparents, etc, etc. It is pretty cut and dried that only one ancestor in a group of 16 or 256 or whatever number is not going to contribute an enormous amount to your overall gene expression, especially if you have no record of a "Japanese" great x ? grandfather.
    Genographic Project: N52850
    GenBank: EU784076
    Z62+ Z60+ Z59+ Z58+ P38+ P30+ P19+ M307+ M258+ M253+ M170+ Z73- Z140- P37.2- P259- P109- M72- M26- M227- M223- M21- M161- L803- L573- L338- L22- L211- L1248- L1247-

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  9. #7
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    I looked into Y-DNA D some years back and observed scant traces of it in the central zone of Eurasia, which is quite a bit west of the East Asian core.

    Have you looked into what sort of matches you're getting on the STR's?

  10. #8
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    Genomic Misfit

    Both FTDNA and GeneBase STR matches are Japanese.
    The FTDNA nearest match indicates a common ancestor 23 generations ago at 99.3%. GeneBase gives a similar result for 27 generations ago. That's about 800 years, isn't it?

  11. #9
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    25-30 years is the generally accepted range for what constitutes a "generation" in genealogy from what I've read online.

    Taking the lower and upper bounds of those, FTDNA shows 575-690ybp whereas GeneBase is 675-810 years. Take the midpoints of those two and you're looking at ~633ybp and ~743ybp.

    You're basically looking at a connection with Japan going back to the 13th-14th centuries.

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  13. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian B View Post
    Both FTDNA and GeneBase STR matches are Japanese.
    The FTDNA nearest match indicates a common ancestor 23 generations ago at 99.3%. GeneBase gives a similar result for 27 generations ago. That's about 800 years, isn't it?
    What you don't know is whether the nearest match at FTDNA is actually the closest match that exists. (Likewise with Genebase.) You could, of course, have a closer Japanese connection. Even an ancestor as close as a 2nd great grandparent, say, would not necessarily have much of an impact on appearance.

    But, you also know that it could indeed be several hundred years back to a Japanese or other Asian ancestor. That's certainly enough time that one doesn't have to imagine the sudden appearance of a Japanese male in the middle of Europe -- though for all we know, that's exactly what happened.

    Rather, there might have been gradual westward movement by several of your Y-line ancestors, taking place over generations. Or maybe some individuals of your haplogroup were present within Genghis Khan's armies?

    (Doesn't FTDNA say Genghis himself was probably in C-M217?)
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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