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Thread: Bronze Age tomb: rulers in Dieskau, Halle, Saxony-Anhalt - Nebra sky disk

  1. #1
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    Bronze Age tomb: rulers in Dieskau, Halle, Saxony-Anhalt - Nebra sky disk

    I found this article in German http://www.welt.de/geschichte/articl...Pharaonen.html
    which prompted me to search for any mentioning here or on other genetic related areas; I have found none.
    The findings seem to be proof of a wealthy dynasty ca. 1900-1600 BC which likely had control over the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk
    According to the article the finding is sensational for this time in Europe.
    You may also translate this article for further information: http://www.t-online.de/nachrichten/w...ei-halle-.html

    I have not seen the mentioning of human remains and/or genetic testing which should be very interesting if possible.

    Particularly interested in: DNA/Admixture from Historical Tyrol, Central Alps and related/connected populations; Y-DNA J2a-FGC16096, J2a-L210(xZ482), R1a-M17, R1b-U106; mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects: Hidden Content , Hidden Content , J2a-PF5197, ISOGG Wiki, GenWiki (german)

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    Yes the Nebra Sky Disc was a stunning discovery and much has been written about it.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nebra_sky_disk cites a number of sources in English, including the English-language version of the official page by the museum where it is now held: http://www.lda-lsa.de/en/nebra_sky_disc/

    I am not aware of the find site being identified as a tomb. The Nebra Sky Disc was found together with two bronze swords, which helped to date it. It has been associated with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture for which we do have some ancient DNA results: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/cop...zeagedna.shtml

    An analysis found that the gold used in the first phase of the disk was from the river Carnon in Cornwall, United Kingdom. The tin content of the bronze was also from Cornwall. See
    http://eurjmin.geoscienceworld.org/c...23/6/895.short
    http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...515.x/abstract

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jean M View Post
    I am not aware of the find site being identified as a tomb. The Nebra Sky Disc was found together with two bronze swords, which helped to date it. It has been associated with the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetice_culture for which we do have some ancient DNA results: http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/cop...zeagedna.shtml
    The new findings and articles are not about the Nebra Sky Disc but indeed about some sort of extraordinary tomb (painted in white). The chief archeologist even uses Pyramids as a comparison of how unique the tomb remains are for this age in Europe. I have not yet found English articles about the new findings which in the articles are assumed to belong to the same culture and dynasty which had control over the Nebra Sky Disc, so Unetice.

    From your ancestraljourneys page from the 88 Unetice samples I see only two I2 and one K Y-DNA-haplogroups could be established. My impression is a lot more Y-DNA (especially from the rulers) in this culture is needed for a comprehensive understanding if and how modern widespread Y-haplogroups were involved in this culture.
    Particularly interested in: DNA/Admixture from Historical Tyrol, Central Alps and related/connected populations; Y-DNA J2a-FGC16096, J2a-L210(xZ482), R1a-M17, R1b-U106; mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects: Hidden Content , Hidden Content , J2a-PF5197, ISOGG Wiki, GenWiki (german)

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    I see. Some more background on Únětice Dieskau: Brendan O'Connor, From Dorchester to Dieskau –some aspects of relations between Britain and Central Europe during the Early Bronze Age, Tagungen Des Landesmuseums Für Vorgeschichte Halle, Band 05 (2010), pp. 591-602 : https://www.academia.edu/1222120/Fro...rly_Bronze_Age

    This article considers metalwork evidence for relations between Britain and Central Europe, mainly Germany and Switzerland, from the early Bell Beaker period to the end of the Early Bronze Age. During the early Beaker period and Bronze A1 there was more gold in Britain than in Central Europe. High-tin bronze seems to have been adopted independently in Britain at the start of the Migdale phase while copper or low tin bronze was used in Central Europe during Bronze A1. The metalwork assemblages in Britain and Central Europe show little close similarity at this time. There was much more gold in Central Europe during Bronze A2, and more tin was used though still less than in Britain. There is evidence for increased contact during A2, mainly exports from Britain to Central Europe.
    Years ago two hoards of Bronze Age metal objects were discovered at Dieskau (Saalekreis, Saxony-Anhalt). One was found before 1936 and contained many axe-heads. Photo here: http://www.lda-lsa.de/en/nebra_sky_d..._hoard/hoards/ . The second was dated to c. 1800 BC and contained just one bronze axe of an Irish-British type, higher in tin than the local axes and closely comparable in design to an axe from the enclosure at Mount Pleasant, Dorchester, Dorset, similar to several from Ireland.

    O'Connor makes a number of other comparisons, for example suggesting that a locally made ribbed bracelet from a late Beaker burial at Shorncote, Gloucestershire (1975–1670 cal. BC.) could have been made by someone familiar with Únětice ribbed bracelets like the example from Dieskau.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    The findings seem to be proof of a wealthy dynasty ca. 1900-1600 BC
    The same museum which holds the Nebra Sky Disc does give some information in English on the tomb at Dieskau and two similar "princely graves":

    In the same period, a special form of burial is found in Leubingen (Kreis Sömmerda, Thuringia), Helmsdorf (Salzlandkreis) and Dieskau (Saalkreis): the so-called 'princely grave'. These Únêtician princely graves were equipped with gold and bronze objects of high value in both quality and quantity, and are also characterised by an elaborate grave construction - a barrow of over 30 m diameter, in the centre of which is a core of stones surrounding a tent-like wooden mortuary chamber.
    http://www.lda-lsa.de/en/state_museu...ly_bronze_age/

    Wikipedia has a longer list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unetic...rincely_graves
    Last edited by Jean M; 08-29-2016 at 05:21 PM.

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    Here is an artist's impression of the tent-shaped "princely grave" at Leubingen: http://cdn3.spiegel.de/images/image-...smt-232836.jpg

    As Der Spiegel put it in 2011:

    In 1877, when archeology was still in its infancy, art professor Friedrich Klopfleisch climbed an almost nine-meter (30-foot) mound of earth in Leubingen, a district in the eastern German state of Thuringia lying near a range of hills in eastern Germany known as the Kyffhäuser. He was there to "kettle" the hill, which entailed having workers dig a hole from the top of the burial mound into the burial chamber below.

    When they finally arrived at the burial chamber, everything lay untouched: There were the remains of a man, shiny gold cloak pins, precious tools, a dagger, a pot for food or drink near the man's feet, and the skeleton of a child lying across his lap. The "prince" of Leubingen was clearly a member of the elite...

    For years, scholars have puzzled over the source of the prince's power. But Thuringia's state office of historical preservation has now come a step closer to solving the mystery. Agency archeologists used heavy machinery to excavate 25 hectares (62 acres) of ground in the mound's immediate surroundings, exposing a buried infrastructure. They discovered the remains of one of the largest buildings in prehistoric Germany, with 470 square meters (5,057 square feet) of floor space; a treasure trove of bronze objects; and a cemetery in which 44 farmers were buried in simple, unadorned graves.....

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    remains of a man, ... and the skeleton of a child lying across his lap. The "prince" of Leubingen was clearly a member of the elite...
    ... and a cemetery in which 44 farmers were buried in simple, unadorned graves
    So plenty of aDNA. Seems I haven't looked enough into sources. Nice findings, especially the Spiegel impression.
    Particularly interested in: DNA/Admixture from Historical Tyrol, Central Alps and related/connected populations; Y-DNA J2a-FGC16096, J2a-L210(xZ482), R1a-M17, R1b-U106; mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects: Hidden Content , Hidden Content , J2a-PF5197, ISOGG Wiki, GenWiki (german)

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