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Thread: Are the Bretons closer to Welsh and Cornish people or to other French people?

  1. #1
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    Are the Bretons closer to Welsh and Cornish people or to other French people?

    Are there any genetic studies on Bretons?

    Bretons claim to be descendants of British Celts who escaped Anglo saxon rule. So are they genetically closer to Welsh and Cornish people or their french neighbors?

    Discuss

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nordic View Post
    Are there any genetic studies on Bretons?

    Bretons claim to be descendants of British Celts who escaped Anglo saxon rule. So are they genetically closer to Welsh and Cornish people or their french neighbors?

    Discuss
    Well one could argue that Cluster 17 in the original PoBI analysis is a Brythonic one, in which case it seems to be elevated among NW French sample





    It appears to peak in modern Welsh followed by Cornish.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nordic View Post
    Are there any genetic studies on Bretons?

    Bretons claim to be descendants of British Celts who escaped Anglo saxon rule. So are they genetically closer to Welsh and Cornish people or their french neighbors?

    Discuss
    A study on this topic

    http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2014175a.html
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgenes50 View Post
    When computing pairwise IBS, for individuals from this merged data set, we observed that the European countries showing the largest mean IBS with the DESIR-CavsGen individuals were France, UK, Ireland, followed by Germany and Belgium, followed by Spain and Italy (Figure 3 and Supplementary Figure 8). The IBS pattern differed according to French Regions, with the Brittany Region having a specific pattern. The countries that had the largest IBS with the Breton individuals were Ireland, UK and France in this order (Figure 3). The IBS between Irish and Bretons was significantly larger (P<10−12) than the IBS between Irish and individuals from the other regions of Western France (Normandy, Pays de Loire, Poitou-Charente, Centre), and this pattern was also found with the control DESIR-REP data set (Supplementary Figure 9)
    It's interesting how Ireland is closer to the Bretons than the UK sample is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nordic View Post
    It's interesting how Ireland is closer to the Bretons than the UK sample is.
    And the Normands are closer to the UK sample
    Recent Ancestry, full Normand. Known Genealogy 7/8 of the Cotentin peninsula 1/8 region of Coutances. Unfortunately, there are many missing branches on the maternal side.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Helgenes50 View Post
    And the Normands are closer to the UK sample
    Yeah, that as well but it looks pretty even between Brittany and Normandy when it comes to their genetic similarity with the UK

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    France France Bretagne
    From K3 admixture:
    Green: Breton, Blue: Vendťen and red: other.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Tolan View Post
    From K3 admixture:
    Green: Breton, Blue: Vendťen and red: other.




    Nice!
    Looks like Brittany is in a category of it's own, with their ancestry mainly being labelled as "Breton".
    I guess the theory that their crazy Brythonic language spread by acculturation and not by genetics, making them (Bretons) of native French ancestry, is pretty silly as these studies seem to show that:

    * Brittany is in it's own "Breton" genetic category.
    * They share the highest IBS with Irish and Brits.
    * Cluster 17 (which peaks among Welsh and Cornish people) in the original PoBI seems to be especially elevated in NW France compared to other French regions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Nordic View Post
    It's interesting how Ireland is closer to the Bretons than the UK sample is.
    Probably because the UK sample didn't include any Welsh samples.

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    Quote Originally Posted by avalon View Post
    Probably because the UK sample didn't include any Welsh samples.
    I would suspect so as well

    It would be interesting to see if Cornish or Welsh people are closer to Bretons. I know the Breton language is the closest to Cornish but i have heard from some that the Cornish can have assimilated more Germanic peoples than they would like to admit

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