Page 1 of 22 12311 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 214

Thread: R1b-L2

  1. #1
    Banned
    Posts
    16
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b1a2a1a1a1b2a

    Australia Scotland Ireland England

    R1b-L2

    Hi,
    Are there many members that are L2

  2. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,794
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by harryandliz1 View Post
    Hi,
    Are there many members that are L2
    Yes, there are a few of us here now.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  3. #3
    Banned
    Posts
    16
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b1a2a1a1a1b2a

    Australia Scotland Ireland England
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Yes, there are a few of us here now.
    Thanks for your reply

    Name is Shannon and we have been researching the family for about 20 years
    We have not found any DNA relationship with any other Shannon despite paying for many
    tests for people from Ireland, Scotland, USA and Australia.
    Earliest known relative was located in Ireland in the mid 1700's
    His grandson came to Australia in 1930 from Dublin and started the family here (last count about 6000)
    We have an association that has paid for most of the testing done to date.
    Burning of Irish records in 1920's has put a stop to using this source
    Church records have us back as far as we can go as the family moved around causing a gap
    Family have been merchants and leather workers and seem to have arrived in northern Ireland from Scotland
    in 1600 or early 1700's
    With L2 having its center from Northern Italy/Switzerland/ east France/ Black forest, we have no idea how we arrived in Scotland but may have been with Normans or earlier as traders and the name then certainly was not Shannon

    L2 is more than interesting -
    looking at DNA and associated names
    1) no trends of family names
    2) looks like the DNA has dispersed to many countries but in low percentages in each country
    3) there is some thought that this may be because they were traders
    4) there is some thought that dispersion/trading may have some sephardic (s) roots
    5) my family in Australia has never thrown a lot of males

    Female side is also difficult to trace back as original male in Australia married an Irish orphan and her name may have been given to her by the orphanage.

    There is a lot more but I am tired and off to bed

  4. #4
    Banned
    Posts
    16
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b1a2a1a1a1b2a

    Australia Scotland Ireland England
    My apologies
    I am not as up to date as I should be with the latest testing but testing to the 111 level we come out as L2.
    From my memory of many years ago we were the first L2 FTDNA found and we were used as the standard for L2 with FTDNA. I don't know if this is still the case
    That now be old history I am now trying to catch up with what has happened in the last few years with testing.
    As you can see we have not been too successful in finding family members in Ireland, Scotland or the USA.
    I will not be asking any stupid questions but intend to Lurk around and learn on this site and others at the same time helping others if I can
    Regards

  5. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,794
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by harryandliz1 View Post
    My apologies
    I am not as up to date as I should be with the latest testing but testing to the 111 level we come out as L2.
    From my memory of many years ago we were the first L2 FTDNA found and we were used as the standard for L2 with FTDNA. I don't know if this is still the case
    That now be old history I am now trying to catch up with what has happened in the last few years with testing.
    As you can see we have not been too successful in finding family members in Ireland, Scotland or the USA.
    I will not be asking any stupid questions but intend to Lurk around and learn on this site and others at the same time helping others if I can
    Regards
    Harryandliz1, if you have been away for that long, then the the hypotheses around U152 have indeed changed.

    Whereas U152's expansion was once attributed mainly to Celtic La Tene movements, academic testing has shown some of its highest frequency in areas with no Celtic influence, primarily Central Italy and Corsica. Along with its brother clades L21 and DF27, it seems to have expanded during the Copper Age and Early Bronze Age.

    If you don't mind posting it, what is your kit number?

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to R.Rocca For This Useful Post:

     Scarlet Ibis (05-01-2013)

  7. #6
    Member
    Posts
    94
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    British
    Nationality
    British/Canadian/US
    Y-DNA (P)
    u152-PF4363
    mtDNA (M)
    v

    England Canada United States of America Guernsey Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by harryandliz1 View Post
    My apologies
    I am not as up to date as I should be with the latest testing but testing to the 111 level we come out as L2.
    From my memory of many years ago we were the first L2 FTDNA found and we were used as the standard for L2 with FTDNA. I don't know if this is still the case
    That now be old history I am now trying to catch up with what has happened in the last few years with testing.
    As you can see we have not been too successful in finding family members in Ireland, Scotland or the USA.
    I will not be asking any stupid questions but intend to Lurk around and learn on this site and others at the same time helping others if I can
    Regards
    Have you tried research thru www.ancestry.co.uk ?
    If your ancestors are not mainly US, this is more cost effective than signing up thru US and adding uk. Costs $25 for a month, then cancel until you need it again, or go for a year at a time.
    You can get copies of census etc, and also I have had a LOT of luck in clicking on " Family Trees". Also, I am the authority on posting "stupid questions" and get much support, so don't worry about that.

    This forum is VERY forgiving, with the best knowledgable people.
    Rich C
    Last edited by Claxon; 05-01-2013 at 02:59 PM.

  8. #7
    Banned
    Posts
    16
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b1a2a1a1a1b2a

    Australia Scotland Ireland England
    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the reply and I certainly am surprised about the amount of activity.
    That activity seems to be very recent (last year or so) was there some reason for the sudden surge in activity?
    We seemed to be sitting out there as L2 for a long time before others started turning up, now there seems to be a cloudburst with more and more sub-clades under L2.
    For years our family research considered that the Russians seemed to have the best and most logical movement of the U152 DNA through North Africa and into Spain Then the severe drought that also disrupted the Egyptian kingdoms and created the deserts in north Africa. Resulted in what was left of the European population surviving in the Pyrenees until they were able to spread out again some going north and east into France. With what became L2 moving along the Mediterranean coast and into northern Italy and up into the Alpes.
    I think the old name given to the was Alpine Celts.
    However there seems to be as many theories as there are papers written. Never the less, taken with a grain of salt the Russians have been very logical in their hypothesis.
    With regard to central Italy - if you check on Roman history, the alpine tribes in the upper Po valley and down the mountains to about where Monarco is today stopped the Romans advance, into what is now France, for many years. When the Romans finally won through they rounded up as many of that population as they could ( about 20,000) and moved them to the area South and East of Rome (where the Abruzzi region is today) so they didn't do it again. That would give a high reading in central Italy
    We have several Kits, The best one is the public one and that is 159917 if that is any help to you.
    The name in Scotland is derived from the German Aschennane (or one of its variants) which comes from the Swiss German border area
    As I said we cannot find any related L2 in Southern Ireland or Dublin where our ancestor came from (still looking into Northern Ireland but the records are not as good as in Southern Ireland). Have not found any related L2 in Scotland as it seems most of the family left during the clearings. We know several reached the USA but are very distant cousins.
    I hope this may be of some use to you. The reason we stopped doing more research was that we found ourselves bashing our heads on the wall trying to get more information and people to test.
    But we did assist a lot of people in the USA get in touch with their Ireland Roots. It is funny we found that in the USA people were happy once they found the relatives that first reached The USA ( a bit of the Mayflower I think)

    Best regards

  9. #8
    Banned
    Posts
    16
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Nationality
    Australian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b1a2a1a1a1b2a

    Australia Scotland Ireland England
    Thanks Rich

    That information is very useful unfortunately we are in Ancestry in the USA and Australia
    We are reasonably comfortable that our people left Scotland in the mid to late 1600 but getting connection links is a problem. Particularly in Northern Ireland as Immigration records are very haphazard to say the least and people and family just seem to appear and disappear with no links in church and civil records.
    I have just sent a reply to Richard's questions that should fill you in with more of the story to date\
    Best regards

  10. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,794
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    Italo-Iberian
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-U152+L2+FGC10543
    mtDNA (M)
    H4a1-T152C!

    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Quote Originally Posted by harryandliz1 View Post
    Hi Richard,

    Thanks for the reply and I certainly am surprised about the amount of activity.
    That activity seems to be very recent (last year or so) was there some reason for the sudden surge in activity?
    We seemed to be sitting out there as L2 for a long time before others started turning up, now there seems to be a cloudburst with more and more sub-clades under L2.
    For years our family research considered that the Russians seemed to have the best and most logical movement of the U152 DNA through North Africa and into Spain Then the severe drought that also disrupted the Egyptian kingdoms and created the deserts in north Africa. Resulted in what was left of the European population surviving in the Pyrenees until they were able to spread out again some going north and east into France. With what became L2 moving along the Mediterranean coast and into northern Italy and up into the Alpes.
    I think the old name given to the was Alpine Celts.
    However there seems to be as many theories as there are papers written. Never the less, taken with a grain of salt the Russians have been very logical in their hypothesis.
    With regard to central Italy - if you check on Roman history, the alpine tribes in the upper Po valley and down the mountains to about where Monarco is today stopped the Romans advance, into what is now France, for many years. When the Romans finally won through they rounded up as many of that population as they could ( about 20,000) and moved them to the area South and East of Rome (where the Abruzzi region is today) so they didn't do it again. That would give a high reading in central Italy
    We have several Kits, The best one is the public one and that is 159917 if that is any help to you.
    The name in Scotland is derived from the German Aschennane (or one of its variants) which comes from the Swiss German border area
    As I said we cannot find any related L2 in Southern Ireland or Dublin where our ancestor came from (still looking into Northern Ireland but the records are not as good as in Southern Ireland). Have not found any related L2 in Scotland as it seems most of the family left during the clearings. We know several reached the USA but are very distant cousins.
    I hope this may be of some use to you. The reason we stopped doing more research was that we found ourselves bashing our heads on the wall trying to get more information and people to test.
    But we did assist a lot of people in the USA get in touch with their Ireland Roots. It is funny we found that in the USA people were happy once they found the relatives that first reached The USA ( a bit of the Mayflower I think)

    Best regards
    Please know that there have been two large groups below L2 that have been found in the last 2 years. One is Z49 and the other is Z367. You way want to test for them (although not both at once since they are mutually exclusive).
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  11. #10
    Member
    Posts
    94
    Sex
    Location
    USA
    Ethnicity
    British
    Nationality
    British/Canadian/US
    Y-DNA (P)
    u152-PF4363
    mtDNA (M)
    v

    England Canada United States of America Guernsey Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by harryandliz1 View Post
    Thanks Rich

    That information is very useful unfortunately we are in Ancestry in the USA and Australia
    We are reasonably comfortable that our people left Scotland in the mid to late 1600 but getting connection links is a problem. Particularly in Northern Ireland as Immigration records are very haphazard to say the least and people and family just seem to appear and disappear with no links in church and civil records.
    I have just sent a reply to Richard's questions that should fill you in with more of the story to date\
    Best regards
    It has has mentioned in a blog, that large ammounts of parrish and civil records are being put into databases. I may have the info a bit incorrect... but that was the gist of things. I would think that this will eventually be the case for the Isles at some point. They certainly have much more interest with paper trails on the whole than this side of the pond, altho that is of course , of interest... but we are getting more and more interest in the DNA side of things, while THAT side is apparently running away screaming when DNA testing is mentioned.



    Anyway, not to clutter the board, I am [email protected] for further chatting
    RichC
    Last edited by Claxon; 05-03-2013 at 01:39 PM.

Page 1 of 22 12311 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •