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Thread: Dienekes' Anthropology (Genetics) and Dodecad Project Thread

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Humata View Post
    As with most of these Mixed Population programs, Palisto's one is useful for confirming biogeographical drag in particular directions if admixture from a given population is highly improbable.

    For example, with my own results, the ~93% Iranian ~7% Aleut combination supports my having a genetic pull towards the NE towards Central Asia relative to other Iranians. I most likely don't have any Alaskan in me.
    Yes exactly all very true.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Palisto View Post
    I made some maps and trees of Dodecad Globe13.

    http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/...g-dodecad.html
    Thanks for doing this. Posted something on another forum, but noticed I left out one Assyrian. And it appears you have since updated the map to include the Iraqi Arab from Baghdad.

    Assyrians in purple. Iraqi Mandaeans (N=2) in purple without black dot. Iraqi Arab from Baghdad is denoted by the purple thumbtack.

    DOD028 is my uncle. On 23andMe he is one of the few Assyrians with a bit of "Asian." This, and the fact that Fst distances were used in calculating the positions (?), may explain, at least in part, why he is located where he is.




    EDIT: Actually, it is not the "Asian." It is more likely the fact that he has a globe13 "West Asian" value of 50.2 and a "Southwest Asian" value of 22.4.

    I recall, when I ran my father's data in a prior analysis, he and his brother (DOD028), had more than negligible differences. I observed the same for my brother and I. For this reason, I believe that it is best to average the values of siblings (where possible) when attempting to identify one's ancestral (geographical) roots. This would help minimize the effects of recombination on these types of analyses when we are dealing with a single individual.
    Last edited by Humanist; 11-08-2012 at 07:01 PM.

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  4. #23
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    Palisto, I can't find myself (DOD010) on your map. Was I excluded for any reason, or are the other Iranians masking my position?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Humata View Post
    Palisto, I can't find myself (DOD010) on your map. Was I excluded for any reason, or are the other Iranians masking my position?
    Sorry, I forgot to add you. You are now in the updated version.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Thanks for doing this. Posted something on another forum, but noticed I left out one Assyrian. And it appears you have since updated the map to include the Iraqi Arab from Baghdad.
    You are welcome. Yes, I updated it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humanist View Post
    Assyrians in purple. Iraqi Mandaeans (N=2) in purple without black dot. Iraqi Arab from Baghdad is denoted by the purple thumbtack.

    DOD028 is my uncle. On 23andMe he is one of the few Assyrians with a bit of "Asian." This, and the fact that Fst distances were used in calculating the positions (?), may explain, at least in part, why he is located where he is.




    EDIT: Actually, it is not the "Asian." It is more likely the fact that he has a globe13 "West Asian" value of 50.2 and a "Southwest Asian" value of 22.4.

    I recall, when I ran my father's data in a prior analysis, he and his brother (DOD028), had more than negligible differences. I observed the same for my brother and I. For this reason, I believe that it is best to average the values of siblings (where possible) when attempting to identify one's ancestral (geographical) roots. This would help minimize the effects of recombination on these types of analyses when we are dealing with a single individual.
    To average out the results of siblings might be a good idea but as far as I know there only unrelated people in Dodecad project (very few exeptions).
    Your uncle DOD028 got this position because of his globe13 results. I used weighted Euclidean distances based on Fst values but even with regular Euclidean distances he would end up closer to Armenians.

    For each, I just posted the TOP1 match, here are his results in detail, so you can have a better idea.

    TOP20 (all)
    Code:
    			
    #	ID		Ethnicity/N			Normal Distance	Adjusted Distance
    1	DOD028		Assyrian (Nestorian)		0		0
    2	Armenians_15_Y	Yunusbayev et al.		3.064310689	2.884415285
    3	DOD027		Assyrian (Nestorian)		3.246536616	2.965541788
    4	DOD221		Armenian			3.201562119	3.019017255
    5	DOD914		Armenian			3.154362059	3.050641522
    6	Azerbaijan_Jews	Behar et al.			3.906404997	3.547682053
    7	DOD896		Armenian			3.950949253	3.61081138
    8	DOD439		Armenian 			3.983716857	3.670665118
    9	DOD830		Armenian			4.003748244	3.733416431
    10	DOD134		Assyrian (Nestorian)		4.162931659	3.751852614
    11	DOD037		Assyrian (Nestorian-Chaldean-Mix) 4.233202098	3.850572679
    12	DOD922		Armenian			4.246174749	3.916799818
    13	Assyrian_D	Dodecad				4.487761134	4.019279226
    14	Armenian_D	Dodecad				4.332435804	4.146461195
    15	DOD921		Armenian			4.392038251	4.173116558
    16	DOD040		Assyrian (Chaldean)		4.634652091	4.228418557
    17	Georgia_Jews	Behar et al.			4.859012245	4.332297593
    18	DOD920		Armenian			4.860041152	4.356323313
    19	DOD796		Armenian (Melik)		4.694677838	4.365514909
    20	DPD012		Assyrian			4.889785271	4.43263338
    TOP10 (reference populations only)
    Code:
    		
    #	ID		Normal Distance	Adjusted Distance
    1	Armenians_15_Y	3.1	2.8
    2	Azerbaijan_Jews	3.9	3.5
    3	Armenian_D	4.3	4.0
    4	Assyrian_D	4.5	4.0
    5	Georgia_Jews	4.9	4.3
    6	Armenians	5.4	5.0
    7	Uzbekistan_Jews	7.8	6.9
    8	Iranian_Jews	8.6	7.8
    9	Kurd_D		8.8	8.0
    10	Kurds_Y		9.5	8.5
    OracleTOP20 combinations (reference populations only)
    Code:
    #	Dist	Pop1		%Pop1	Pop2		%Pop2	latitude longitude 
    1	1.4268	Assyrian_D	78.7%	Georgians	21.3%	37.50	43.50
    2	1.4373	Assyrian_D	73.8%	Georgian_D	26.2%	37.76	43.58
    3	1.5028	Iranian_Jews	64.9%	Georgians	35.1%		
    4	1.7412	Assyrian_D	79.2%	Abhkasians_Y	20.8%	37.74	42.70
    5	1.7912	Iraq_Jews	53.5%	Georgian_D	46.5%	36.81	44.59
    6	1.7958	Azerbaijan_Jews	77.5%	Georgian_D	22.5%		
    7	1.8988	Azerbaijan_Jews	82.1%	Georgians	17.9%		
    8	2.0764	Azerbaijan_Jews	82.6%	Abhkasians_Y	17.4%		
    9	2.0957	Georgians	75.0%	Yemen_Jews	25.0%		
    10	2.1855	Georgia_Jews	78.2%	Georgians	21.8%		
    11	2.1937	Iraq_Jews	60.4%	Abhkasians_Y	39.6%	36.68	43.06
    12	2.2066	Armenians	63.0%	Iranian_Jews	37.0%		
    13	2.3203	Iranian_Jews	58.8%	Georgian_D	41.2%		
    14	2.3806	Armenians_15_Y	81.1%	Iranian_Jews	18.9%		
    15	2.5591	Georgia_Jews	74.0%	Georgian_D	26.0%		
    16	2.6434	Armenians_15_Y	86.8%	Iraq_Jews	13.2%	38.62	44.13
    17	2.6626	Armenians_15_Y	70.4%	Assyrian_D	29.6%	38.61	43.80
    18	2.6671	Georgians	64.8%	Samaritan_All	35.2%	38.37	41.44
    19	2.6818	Iranian_Jews	65.6%	Abhkasians_Y	34.4%		
    20	2.7321	Armenians_15_Y	66.8%	Azerbaijan_Jews	33.2%
    To me it seems like Nestorians (purple) are more Anatolian, Syriac Orthodox (green) are more Syrian, and Chaldeans (red) are in between. At least this trend can be seen for Assyrians in Globe13.

    Screen Shot 2012-11-08 at 7.15.26 PM.jpg

    https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...31873,7.536621
    Last edited by Palisto; 11-09-2012 at 03:19 AM.

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  7. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Palisto View Post

    To me it seems like Nestorians (purple) are more Anatolian, Syriac Orthodox (green) are more Syrian, and Chaldeans (red) are in between. At least this trend can be seen for Assyrians in Globe13.
    Yeah, relatively speaking, that would be correct. However, Iraqi Mandaeans are from southern Iraq, and they have lived there for a very long time. So long a period, that Mandaic has more in common with the long extinct dialect of the Babylonian Talmud, Babylonian Jewish Aramaic, than it does vernacular Syriac ("Sureth"). So, I still believe there is a chance that these positions may be too far north. At least, that is, if we are interested in our very ancient roots. One of Polako's SPA runs placed us near Babylon, and the Mandaeans near Uruk (?).

    I calculated median values for the groups as well. This is how I separated the samples:
    CHALDEAN CATHOLIC
    DOD836 (I think)
    DOD095

    NESTORIAN
    DOD026
    DOD243
    DOD163
    DOD027
    DPD012
    DOD134
    DOD028

    ORTHODOX
    DOD599
    DOD135
    DOD386


    DOD634 <-- I am not sure of this individual's church affiliation.
    DPD024 <-- Not one of the major churches. Not sure what the affiliation is.
    DOD134 <-- My paternal uncle and maternal grandmother are included.
    DOD040 <-- Mixed (1/4 Armenian).
    DOD037 <-- Mixed (Nestorian/Chaldean Catholic) - Catholic paternal uncle is included.





    Last edited by Humanist; 11-09-2012 at 03:56 AM.

  8. #26
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    My "globe" series of DIYDodecad results:

    Globe4

    ----------------------------
    FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
    ----------------------------

    70.56% European
    20.79% Asian
    0.00% African
    8.65% Amerindian

    Globe10

    ----------------------------
    FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
    ----------------------------

    1.90% Amerindian
    9.32% West_Asian
    1.12% Australasian
    0.00% Palaeo_African
    0.00% Neo_African
    6.10% Siberian
    9.43% Southern
    16.46% East_Asian
    55.07% Atlantic_Baltic
    0.60% South_Asian

    Globe13

    ----------------------------
    FINAL ADMIXTURE PROPORTIONS:
    ----------------------------

    6.54% Siberian
    1.87% Amerindian
    0.00% West_African
    0.00% Palaeo_African
    2.22% Southwest_Asian
    15.50% East_Asian
    25.59% Mediterranean
    1.11% Australasian
    0.11% Arctic
    8.49% West_Asian
    38.31% North_European
    0.24% South_Asian
    0.00% East_African

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  10. #27
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    There is one Assyrian man on 23andMe, who registers fairly high (7.24%) or so "South_Asian" on Dodecad V3. On Oracle, he was closer to Kurds than he was to Assyrians. I presume he's a Nestorian Assyrian.

  11. #28
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    Dodecad chromosome paintings at Gedmatch

    Hi,
    Just wondering if someone can help me understand how they work! Across Eurogenes and Harappa World plus Doug, 23andme and deCODEme, my mother gets a segment of SSA in the same location. With Dodecad, it only appears on V3, k12b and a smidgen on World 9, but not k7b or Africa 9. Does anyone know why this might happen? Is Africa 9 only for Africans and recently mixed individuals? Is k12b better than k7b?
    Thanks.

  12. #29
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    I'm not really sure about this. But if you note the location, what is that African segment appearing as, when it doesn't appear as SSA?
     

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    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

  13. #30
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    Hi,
    On Africa 9 it appears as European and SW Asian and on k7b it appears as West/South/East Asian. I did find this on the Dodecad site about Africa 9:
    "new calculator targeted specifically for Africans, The calculator combines data from Henn et al. (2011), HGDP, and Behar et al. (2010). As a result, the number of SNPs is small: there is probably noise in the minor components, but the major components of one's ancestry should be well-defined.
    It should be used only by Africans and African-West Eurasian admixed individuals. It is not meant for people with additional admixture."

    Perhaps they simply don't cover enough SNPs and as it would be minor ancestry, it's been engulfed by the European or confused with Asian? I have written to Dienekes, so it will be interesting to see what he says, but in the mean time wondered if anyone here knew much about the two. Maybe the use of more populations is better able to tease it out?

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