Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 24

Thread: Western Europe Category - What the heck is it?

  1. #1
    Silver Class Member
    Posts
    4,729
    Sex
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z198 (DF27)
    mtDNA (M)
    T2B-T152C

    England Scotland Austrian Empire Canada Quebec Netherlands

    Western Europe Category - What the heck is it?

    Hi,

    So I've read a lot of ancestrydna forum posts and many of them are from Germans or people of German background expecting to get Western Europe, but instead they get Britain or Scandinavia. French people getting Britain instead of EW as well, and some Italians expecting to land in the Italian category but they end up in West Europe. IIRC one guy who had deep Norweigian roots scored 80% EW. It seems to show up a lot in strange amounts in people from England also.

    Why is this category so wonky? it never seems to show up in people who it would make sense for, and when someone expects to land in another category, bam! Europe West'd.
    At least, that's the impression I get. Can any of the experts here shed some light on this? it really makes you wonder who Ancestry chose for their reference populations.

  2. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,919
    Sex
    Location
    South East Wales UK
    Ethnicity
    Welsh
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    U106 Z326 R-BY27310
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c1b2a

    United Kingdom Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Hi,

    So I've read a lot of ancestrydna forum posts and many of them are from Germans or people of German background expecting to get Western Europe, but instead they get Britain or Scandinavia. French people getting Britain instead of EW as well, and some Italians expecting to land in the Italian category but they end up in West Europe. IIRC one guy who had deep Norweigian roots scored 80% EW. It seems to show up a lot in strange amounts in people from England also.

    Why is this category so wonky? it never seems to show up in people who it would make sense for, and when someone expects to land in another category, bam! Europe West'd.
    At least, that's the impression I get. Can any of the experts here shed some light on this? it really makes you wonder who Ancestry chose for their reference populations.
    I'm no expert and will be interested in what people with more knowledge say but it doesn't surprise me that British people who came from Western Europe are similar to people who are actually are from Western Europe. Maybe I'm looking at it too simplistically and should be surprised?

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JohnHowellsTyrfro For This Useful Post:

     Amerijoe (09-20-2016),  wombatofthenorth (12-09-2017)

  4. #3
    Silver Class Member
    Posts
    4,729
    Sex
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z198 (DF27)
    mtDNA (M)
    T2B-T152C

    England Scotland Austrian Empire Canada Quebec Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    I'm no expert and will be interested in what people with more knowledge say but it doesn't surprise me that British people who came from Western Europe are similar to people who are actually are from Western Europe. Maybe I'm looking at it too simplistically and should be surprised?
    If I'm understanding you correctly I think you've got a good point. The POBI study shows that the British populations are comprised of several mainland groups, so it really isn't a shocker that so many mainland Europeans score high on the British scale. It's just weird that they actually included a western European category and yet people who fit within this area don't seem to score in it at all. (At least that's the impression i get from reading forums and blogs on the matter).

  5. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to sktibo For This Useful Post:

     Amerijoe (09-20-2016),  Cinnamon orange (09-20-2016),  JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-20-2016)

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,919
    Sex
    Location
    South East Wales UK
    Ethnicity
    Welsh
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    U106 Z326 R-BY27310
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c1b2a

    United Kingdom Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    If I'm understanding you correctly I think you've got a good point. The POBI study shows that the British populations are comprised of several mainland groups, so it really isn't a shocker that so many mainland Europeans score high on the British scale. It's just weird that they actually included a western European category and yet people who fit within this area don't seem to score in it at all. (At least that's the impression i get from reading forums and blogs on the matter).
    I find some of the descriptions used a bit curious and confusing, which isn't helped by different testing companies appearing to use different terms and maybe should define a bit more clearly what these terms actually mean and whether they are relating them to certain time periods, for example does "British" mean pre- Anglo/Saxon? . I'm sure people with greater knowledge understand them more than I do.

  7. The Following User Says Thank You to JohnHowellsTyrfro For This Useful Post:

     Amerijoe (09-20-2016)

  8. #5
    Silver Class Member
    Posts
    4,729
    Sex
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z198 (DF27)
    mtDNA (M)
    T2B-T152C

    England Scotland Austrian Empire Canada Quebec Netherlands
    Here's what I've found out about the British Category:
    1. Its reference populations appear to be based in Central and South England. Figure 3.6 in the white paper: http://dna.ancestry.com/resource/whi...ty-White-Paper
    2. I doubt it's indicative of Anglo-Saxon ancestry because one man in North Wales took the test and got 63% Great Britain 29% Irish. I don't think any Welsh man could possibly be 63% Saxon.
    3. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't include any Anglo-Saxon because it is apparently one of the most admixed region of Ancestry's ethnicities.
    4. There are many people who have posted on forums with the majority of their ancestry being from France and Germany and ending up with the majority of their estimate being Britain.
    5. Ancestry said in response to a complaint that all of their reference samples come from the regions named, and that the references from Britain do indeed come from Britain.

    That aside, if anyone reading this scored high Europe West, I'm curious as to your paper trail or nationality.

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to sktibo For This Useful Post:

     Amerijoe (09-20-2016),  JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-20-2016)

  10. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,778
    Sex
    Location
    Dún Laoire, Bláth Cliath, Éire
    Ethnicity
    Gael
    Nationality
    Éireanach
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41
    mtDNA (M)
    U4d3

    Ireland
    They plan on splitting this in newer version of their calculator which is currently in BETA see:
    http://www.rootsandrecombinantdna.co...ture-pike.html

    Europe Central cluster addition— might prove instrumental for people with genetic ancestry from populations in Austria, Croatia, Czech Republic, Germany, Hungary, Poland, Slovakia, Slovenia, and Switzerland but it remains to be seen what final biogeographical area this cluster will cover. This cluster may prove valuable with customers whose ancestors are from crossroads areas such as the Istrian peninsula (as seen on PBS Finding Your Roots [view here] with guest Lidia Bastinach, who discovered she had both Italian and Croatian roots due to the Istrian exodus). Apparently there will also be an European East cluster, which is even better.
    There also be change with "Great Britain/Europe West" as a "new" component, it be interesting to see how with the "Central European" component how this will affect people of recent German ancestry (Eg. will they be mostly "Central European" etc.)
    (R1b-DF41+)
    (MtDNA: U4d3)

    How to pronounce my username (modern Irish):
    Hidden Content

  11. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Dubhthach For This Useful Post:

     Amerijoe (09-20-2016),  JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-20-2016),  ollie444 (11-28-2017),  sktibo (09-20-2016)

  12. #7
    Silver Class Member
    Posts
    4,729
    Sex
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-Z198 (DF27)
    mtDNA (M)
    T2B-T152C

    England Scotland Austrian Empire Canada Quebec Netherlands
    That looks like it'll make a lot more sense, Dubhthach. It also sheds light onto the weirdness of the current Europe west category - it's basically the same. I just wish they'd add more categories into the British isles area.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to sktibo For This Useful Post:

     JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-21-2016)

  14. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    288
    Sex
    Omitted

    I am a quarter German descent and got just a few percentage points Western Europe on Ancestry. I am also a quarter British isles descent.
    Ancestry tends to over do the Scandinavian.
    The main problem I have with Amcestry is, they do not give a chromosome view, so you cannot compare their deductions with others, 23andme, Gedmatch calcs. (And no, being able to upload your raw data to Gedmatch is not the same as seeing where Ancestry allocated it.)

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Cinnamon orange For This Useful Post:

     sktibo (09-20-2016)

  16. #9
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,919
    Sex
    Location
    South East Wales UK
    Ethnicity
    Welsh
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA (P)
    U106 Z326 R-BY27310
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c1b2a

    United Kingdom Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Here's what I've found out about the British Category:
    1. Its reference populations appear to be based in Central and South England. Figure 3.6 in the white paper: http://dna.ancestry.com/resource/whi...ty-White-Paper
    2. I doubt it's indicative of Anglo-Saxon ancestry because one man in North Wales took the test and got 63% Great Britain 29% Irish. I don't think any Welsh man could possibly be 63% Saxon.
    3. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't include any Anglo-Saxon because it is apparently one of the most admixed region of Ancestry's ethnicities.
    4. There are many people who have posted on forums with the majority of their ancestry being from France and Germany and ending up with the majority of their estimate being Britain.
    5. Ancestry said in response to a complaint that all of their reference samples come from the regions named, and that the references from Britain do indeed come from Britain.

    That aside, if anyone reading this scored high Europe West, I'm curious as to your paper trail or nationality.
    "I don't think any Welsh man could possibly be 63% Saxon."

    but that's where these terms become confusing. For example many people migrated to parts of Wales from England, particularly during the 19th Century their descendants would have been born in Wales, but even if they were English they wouldn't have been exclusively Anglo/Saxon before they moved to Wales. I suppose what I mean is, even an English person probably wouldn't be 63% Saxon ( is there Saxon dna?) or am I mistaken?
    Not being contrary, just trying to learn.

  17. #10
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,730
    Sex
    Location
    Calne,England
    Ethnicity
    British and Irish
    Nationality
    Great Britain
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Y45878
    mtDNA (M)
    H67

    United Kingdom Scotland England Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Here's what I've found out about the British Category:
    1. Its reference populations appear to be based in Central and South England. Figure 3.6 in the white paper: http://dna.ancestry.com/resource/whi...ty-White-Paper
    I get Ireland 38 Scandinavian 23 Europe west 22 Great Britain 15 and then Italy/Greece and Europe east at <1 each.

    My known ancestry comes from Gloucestershire,Lancashire,Staffordshire,Warwicksh ire,Worcestershire, Yorkshire,Banffshire,Glasgow,Midlothian,Morayshire and Ireland.

    I was surprised at how low my Great Britain result was. I have heard when they update they are going to combine Great Britain and Europe west into one category.
    Please support Mental health research and world community grid

    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

  18. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to firemonkey For This Useful Post:

     JohnHowellsTyrfro (09-21-2016),  sktibo (09-20-2016)

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-04-2020, 12:31 AM
  2. Haplogroup N2a Western Europe?
    By Tomoboy092 in forum N
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-22-2018, 08:31 PM
  3. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 01-12-2018, 09:06 PM
  4. Steppe Pastoralists into Western Europe
    By A Norfolk L-M20 in forum Archaeology (Prehistory)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-23-2016, 11:50 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •