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Thread: List of ancient samples on GEDmatch

  1. #431
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    Similarity map for sample N47 (part of Polish Corded Ware from Kujawy region) from Fernandes et al. 2018 study:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-33067-w

    Highest similarity (82) is to Kashubians, which I think is interesting, Kujawy is a region located close to Kashubia:

    https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm



    147575 SNPs used in this evaluation:

    Population
    Amerindian 0.97 Pct
    Arabian -
    Armenian -
    Basque 2.84 Pct
    Central_African 0.16 Pct
    Central_Euro 4.45 Pct
    East_African -
    East_Asian -
    East_Balkan 1.52 Pct
    East_Central_Asian -
    East_Central_Euro 18.95 Pct
    East_Med -
    Eastern_Euro 16.05 Pct
    Fennoscandian 13.39 Pct
    French 2.46 Pct
    Iberian 7.65 Pct
    Indo-Chinese -
    Italian -
    Malayan -
    Near_Eastern -
    North_African -
    North_Atlantic 11.68 Pct
    North_Caucasian -
    North_Sea 18.13 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Oceanian 0.06 Pct
    Omotic -
    Pygmy -
    Siberian -
    South_Asian -
    South_Central_Asian -
    South_Chinese -
    Volga-Ural 1.69 Pct
    West_African -
    West_Caucasian -
    West_Med -

    See my other thread for kit numbers: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....hbouring-areas
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-20-2019 at 04:53 AM.

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  3. #432
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    DNA of ancient Greek settler from Empuries colony, similarity map:

    https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

    https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map...42.1370/3.1761



    Gallic slave (probably, could also be a trader etc.) from Empuries:



    This Gaul has high "French" and "North Atlantic" in Eurogenes K36.

    Y-DNA haplogroup of I8206 (Gaul in Empuries) was R1b-U152>L2.

    =====

    I8215 Empuries Greek settler - kit number FM5677291

    I8206 South Gaul R1b-U152 - kit number LR7149284

    That Gaul was very "northern", which gives support to my hypothesis that modern Central French people have Roman/Italian admixture.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-28-2019 at 10:19 AM.

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  5. #433
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    Eurogenes K15 of this Gaul from Empuries - I8206 - is a bit noisy (or maybe it is DNA damage?):

    Population
    North_Sea 36.88 Pct
    Atlantic 22.88 Pct
    Baltic 10.42 Pct
    Eastern_Euro 7.77 Pct
    West_Med 11.55 Pct
    West_Asian 2.82 Pct
    East_Med 0.86 Pct
    Red_Sea -
    South_Asian 4.66 Pct
    Southeast_Asian -
    Siberian 0.34 Pct
    Amerindian -
    Oceanian 1.21 Pct
    Northeast_African -
    Sub-Saharan 0.61 Pct

    But after removing South Asian, Oceanian and SSA noise and extrapolating to 100%, we get this:

    Population
    North_Sea 39.44
    Atlantic 24.47
    Baltic 11.14
    Eastern_Euro 8.31
    West_Med 12.35
    West_Asian 3.02
    East_Med 0.92
    Red_Sea 0
    South_Asian 0
    Southeast_Asian 0
    Siberian 0.36
    Amerindian 0
    Oceanian 0
    Northeast_African 0
    Sub-Saharan 0

    Basically like modern Scottish and Irish: https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-28-2019 at 01:18 PM.

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  7. #434
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    Well, maybe it was some Insular Celt captured by Pytheas of Massalia? Who knows...

    Check: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pytheas#Voyage_to_Britain

    But his Y-DNA is R1b-U152 (not Insular R1b-L21) which suggests a continental Celt.

  8. #435
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    Maybe not prudent to call him a Gaul, we don't really know if he was one or not eventhough it's possible given his genetic profile
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>E-Y134097>E-Y168273 (probably Scythian-Sarmatian). Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

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  10. #436
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ruderico View Post
    Maybe not prudent to call him a Gaul, we don't really know if he was one or not eventhough it's possible given his genetic profile
    What else could he be? Check this map: https://i.redd.it/y3akpsjso6gz.jpg

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...es_of_western/

     

    "Volcae Tectosages" and "Volcae Arecomici" were Celts - but Gauls or not?
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-28-2019 at 01:36 PM.

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  12. #437
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    What else could he be? Check this map: https://i.redd.it/y3akpsjso6gz.jpg

    https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/com...es_of_western/

     

    "Volcae Tectosages" and "Volcae Arecomici" were Celts - but Gauls or not?
    Of course he could have been a Gaul, but Emporion was an important trading city, so he could have come from elsewhere in (north/western/central) Europe, trading with Greeks was fairly common amongst Celts in Western and Central Europe. Also, nowhere in the supp info is it stated that he was a "slave".

    The second area, located quite far south from the limits of the Greek city, corresponds to the so-called Granada Necropolis, partially excavated and published by Martín Almagro. More recently, due to the urbanization of this area identified as SU-33-A4, preventive archaeological excavations have described the sequence of use of this cemetery. Although this space was used since the 5th century BCE, the burials analyzed here date to a period between the 3rd and 2nd centuries BCE, which is well documented in the new excavations. They correspond to inhumations excavated in the rock or in the sand layer above the rock, oriented west-east, often marked by a simple stone mound and containing only ointment cases deposited next to the bodies. We analyzed five individuals from this area:

    I8203/02-SU-33-A4-T1058: 300–100 BCE
     I8204/12-SU-33-A4-600: 300–100 BCE
     I8205/12-SU-33-A4-T180: 300–100 BCE
     I8206/12-SU-33-A4-T680: 300–100 BCE
     I8208/12-SU-33-A4-T510: 370-204 cal BCE (2220±20 BP, PSUAMS-4277)

    And please, don't use the rep function to make rather silly and insulting comments, I do not like that.
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428>E-Y134097>E-Y168273 (probably Scythian-Sarmatian). Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA West Eurasia dataset Hidden Content
    Hidden Content


    [1] "distance%=1.7726"

    Ruderico

    Celtiberian,77.6
    Roman_Imperial_proxy,13.6
    Guanche,8.8

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  14. #438
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    That Gaul was very "northern", which gives support to my hypothesis that modern Central French people have Roman/Italian admixture.
    I'm gonna take a guess and actually say that the reason modern day South-Central French are more southern than this sample is because of continuing migration from Italy and Iberia basically from the late Middle Ages and onward to France, and that probably only a small bit is because of Romans. I think I read somewhere on another forum that the population of certain regions of southern France were basically 30% Spanish during the 18th and 19th century.

  15. #439
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    I'm gonna take a guess and actually say that the reason modern day South-Central French are more southern than this sample is because of continuing migration from Italy and Iberia basically from the late Middle Ages and onward to France, and that probably only a small bit is because of Romans.
    It is possible although I wouldn't say "a small bit is because of Romans." along the great axe :Valley of Rhone from Lyon to the Med. Sea , Valley of Saone, Vallée of Rhine with the contiuous circulation and presence of soldiers, traders and craftmen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    I think I read somewhere on anotherforum that the population of certain regions of southern France were basically 30% Spanish during the 18th and 19th century.
    I don't know of what you speak (need references) . Important migration to France due to a lack of workingmen with the consequenses of the brutal natality fall from 1875, overall North Italian and Belgian at the beginning.
    Last edited by palamede; 06-30-2019 at 07:21 AM.

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  17. #440
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    Quote Originally Posted by Helves View Post
    I'm gonna take a guess and actually say that the reason modern day South-Central French are more southern than this sample is because of continuing migration from Italy and Iberia basically from the late Middle Ages and onward to France, and that probably only a small bit is because of Romans. I think I read somewhere on another forum that the population of certain regions of southern France were basically 30% Spanish during the 18th and 19th century.

    I do not know where you've read but it's basically incorrect. The largest Iberian migration to France is after the Civil War and from the 50s. Before there were no population movements towards France, because most of the Spaniards went to the American or Asian colonies. However, the French genetic influence is very strong in Spain, since the times of the Burgundian Dynasty in the 11th century.

    I think that in France the Roman genetic contribution was greater than in Spain. Cesar conquered Gaul thanks to a battle, however the Romans took more than 200 years to conquer Hispania. Fundamentally because the Iberian peoples were not able to make great alliances as Vercingetorix got. The Iberians fought tribe by tribe, the terrain is much more mountainous and therefore the conquest more difficult

    Regarding the sample that Tomenable is commenting on (I8206), we must bear in mind that Ampurias is located in the territory of the Iberian people of Indiketes, and that the Iberian language was spoken up to Hérault (Occitania), with which it is to be assumed that all peoples on the Mediterranean coast at least to the mouth of the Rhone were genetically related, because they spoke the same language. I do not think it was Gaul, I think that if it was a slave or a foreigner it is possible that it was Thracian (I say it for its mitochondrial haplogroup) Are you sure it is U152? This also makes more sense because the Greeks had no relationship with the Gauls, but with the Thracians

    https://www.ehu.eus/ojs/index.php/Ve...le/16981/15681

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