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Thread: DF21 found in Kayseri, Turkey

  1. #1
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    DF21 found in Kayseri, Turkey

    I've no idea what efforts were made to assure the suitability of samples used in the recent paper published in Nature 'The Simons Genome Diversity Project: 300 genomes from 142 diverse populations' but sample Kayseri23827 is classified as R1b1a2a1a2c1g.

    AFAICT they're using ISOGG 2013 which would make this fellow R-DF21, so a little off the beaten track for that haplogroup.

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  3. #2
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    Gallatians

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Gallatians
    Could be

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    Took a quick look at sample PRJEB9586's bam, he is is S5488+. He does not appear to be in any of the known subclades of S5488. Possible early branch 4000+ YBP, but as I said only took a quick look.

    [Correction the ENA study number is PRJEB9586 and the sample number is SAMEA3302750.]
    Last edited by Sealgair; 10-10-2016 at 12:14 PM.
    Charles Fueston
    R1b-DF21> FGC3903 > FGC9749+ / H1c1

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    I've no idea what efforts were made to assure the suitability of samples used in the recent paper published in Nature 'The Simons Genome Diversity Project: 300 genomes from 142 diverse populations' but sample Kayseri23827 is classified as R1b1a2a1a2c1g.

    AFAICT they're using ISOGG 2013 which would make this fellow R-DF21, so a little off the beaten track for that haplogroup.
    Nice catch!
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-FGC36981 (L21> DF13> Z39589> CTS2501> Z43690> Y8426> BY160> FGC36974>FGC36982 >FGC36981)

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Gallatians
    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    Could be
    Whether DF21 was brought there by the Galatians or something earlier the case is getting very difficult for an L21 origin in the British Isles.

    We also have the L21 hot spot in Bologna, Italy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Whether DF21 was brought there by the Galatians or something earlier the case is getting very difficult for an L21 origin in the British Isles.

    We also have the L21 hot spot in Bologna, Italy.
    I don't think there's a consensus for the Galatian homeland but I think the arguments for Germany are persuasive.

    Of course it's a leap of faith to assume this gent has Galatian ancestry just because these were Celts we know moved into central Turkey but either way I'm convinced the arguments for a British Isles L21 homeland fell apart a long time ago.

    Case in point, we've a reasonable number of genetically very isolated DF49 men with solid ancestry from all over Continual Europe now who only the colossally myopic could have a chance of linking to the isles.

  14. #8
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    Recent research/analysis indicates DNA of DF21 Bronze Age individuals whose remains were found in Ireland may have an ancestral Yamnaya/Caucasus/Black Sea/Pontic Steppe component. Kayseri may be considered in that geographical arena, particularly for a herder horse culture.

    Neolithic and Bronze Age migration to Ireland and establishment of the insular Atlantic genome

    (C) A plot of ADMIXTURE ancestry components (K = 11) of these same ancient genomes. In West and Central Europe, ancient individuals are composed almost entirely of two dominant strands of ancestry, linked to hunter–gatherer (red) and early farmer (orange) populations, until the Late Neolithic. At this point, a third (green) Caucasus component features. Previously, this component was only seen in ancient Steppe and Siberian populations such as the Yamnaya. The three Rathlin genomes each display this Caucasus strand of ancestry whereas the Irish Neolithic does not.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/113/2/368/F1.expansion.html

    These analyses, taken with the PCA and ADMIXTURE results, indicate that the Irish Bronze Age is composed of a mixture of European MN and introgressing Steppe ancestry (9, 10). To estimate the proportion of Yamnaya to MN ancestry in each Irish Bronze Age sample, we took three approaches. First, from ADMIXTURE analysis (Fig. 1), we examined the green Caucasus ancestry component. We presume an ultimate source of this as the Yamnaya where it features at a proportion of 40% of their total ancestry. In our three Irish Bronze Age samples, it is present at levels between 6–13%, which, when scaled up to include the remaining 60% of Yamnaya ancestry, imply a total of 14–33% Yamnaya ancestry and therefore 67–86% MN in the Irish Bronze Age. Second, for each Bronze Age Irish individual, we calculated the proportion of MN ancestry by using the ratio f4(Mbuti, Ballynahatty; X, Dai)/f4(Mbuti, Ballynahatty; Gok2, Dai), which gave estimates between 72 ± 4% to 74 ± 5%, implying again a substantial Yamnaya remainder. Third, we followed the methods described in Haak et al. (9), which use a collection of outgroup populations, to estimate the mixture proportions of three different sources, Linearbandkeramik (Early Neolithic; 35 ± 6%), Loschbour (WHG; 26 ± 12%), and Yamnaya (39 ± 8%), in the total Irish Bronze Age group. These three approaches give an overlapping estimate of ∼32% Yamnaya ancestry.

    http://www.pnas.org/content/113/2/368.full
    Ireland ≠ Britain

  15. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    I don't think there's a consensus for the Galatian homeland but I think the arguments for Germany are persuasive.

    Of course it's a leap of faith to assume this gent has Galatian ancestry just because these were Celts we know moved into central Turkey but either way I'm convinced the arguments for a British Isles L21 homeland fell apart a long time ago.

    Case in point, we've a reasonable number of genetically very isolated DF49 men with solid ancestry from all over Continual Europe now who only the colossally myopic could have a chance of linking to the isles.
    Probably southern Germany, where as "Germanics" were in northern Germany.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

  16. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    I've no idea what efforts were made to assure the suitability of samples used in the recent paper published in Nature 'The Simons Genome Diversity Project: 300 genomes from 142 diverse populations' but sample Kayseri23827 is classified as R1b1a2a1a2c1g.

    AFAICT they're using ISOGG 2013 which would make this fellow R-DF21, so a little off the beaten track for that haplogroup.
    Just like they have a Canadian Cree sample that is Z326+. Regretfully that BAM was not published with the rest of the project data. We would be interested in seeing if this line represents say an English/French fur trader. We could narrow down the nationality a bit by seeing which haplogroup under Z326 the result branches off of. There are a number of data use requirements which must be met before one can get access to the unpublished BAMs from this study. Back to chasing my tail.

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