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Thread: How Did U152 Get to England & Scotland?

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    How Did U152 Get to England & Scotland?

    This is a bit of an old question, and perhaps even a simplistic one, but does anyone have any idea? I believe David Faux touched on this issue in a few of his papers a few years ago, but in the field of genetics, quite a lot changes in just a matter of 2 years.

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    I assume it mainly arrived with La Tene movements, and then further trickles with the Romans, Normans, and general Medieval traffic inwards from the U152 areas on the continent. England was ruled jointly with a large chunk of France for quite a while in the Middle Ages. Scotland had close ties with France a bit later on.
    Last edited by Jean M; 05-04-2013 at 07:48 PM.

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    Thanks, Jean. I've been wondering for a while about whether or not there could be an origin from the Roman Empire, but if there is, it's almost certainly only a partial explanation at best.

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    While the La Tene Celts seem to have brought a specific subclade of U152 to Britain called L20, there is reason to suspect that L2(xL20) arrived during the Early Bronze Age. The answer is more difficult to answer for subclades Z36 and Z56, although the latter may be more common south of the Alps and may very well signal some of the Roman influx.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    I defer to your greater knowledge of U152 Richard. It is interesting that you are making headway with subclades. What is the reasoning on L2(xL20)? Is it found in southern Ireland?

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    I suspect it was the main U152 mover during the late Bell Beaker "reflux" movements (along with other flavors of R1b). I'll put something together and post it soon.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    I suspect it was the main U152 mover during the late Bell Beaker "reflux" movements (along with other flavors of R1b). I'll put something together and post it soon.
    That should be very interesting. I note in the earlier post you mention that La Tene Celts, perhaps Britons, would be L20. ...perhaps leaving me somewhere else. It will be nice to have something more definitive for the rest of us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Claxon View Post
    That should be very interesting. I note in the earlier post you mention that La Tene Celts, perhaps Britons, would be L20. ...perhaps leaving me somewhere else. It will be nice to have something more definitive for the rest of us.
    I don't think it rules anyone out however. It should just be taken as a general tend as data is still too low and ancient DNA from the areas of La Tene non-existent.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    I watched a TV program recently, it was an update on a 'Roman' female skeleton of high status.

    Lead isotopes of this 25 year old lady recently revealed matched other skeletons found in Rome and not British isotopes. Now if this person grew up in Rome and moved to Londinium, did her father and possible brothers also come?

    BBC article
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/319833.stm

    Article Update, UK only I think
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    http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=spi...w=1066&bih=866
    Last edited by Solothurn; 05-10-2013 at 10:43 AM.

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    thanks for this link Brian. Astonishing. A complete skeleton with all her teeth. The stone sarcophagus and elaborate lead coffin are astonishing. I can't help but wonder, who this obviously important person could be. 2000 years old, and the laurel leaves inside are still visible.
    no limericks today :-)

    Rc
    Last edited by Claxon; 05-10-2013 at 09:10 PM.

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