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Thread: Y Haplogroup prediction help

  1. #1
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    Y Haplogroup prediction help

    So I followed the instructions here: http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/20...roup-from.html

    and using this predictor: https://ytree.morleydna.com/ settings: FTDNA format, experimental tree

    It assigned me R1b1a2a1a2c1f3, or R1b-L430 (R1b-PF825). A quick google search indicated that this is within the British Isles Y haplogroup, but I'm not so sure about that as my surname is a common French one, and I've traced my paternal line to West-Central France in the 1600's. Is it normal for French people to have these "British" Y groups? Am I correct in my assumption that this is a "British" Y line? Is the haplogroup predictor I've used accurate at all?

    Any information helps, I hardly know anything about Y-DNA.

    Thank you very much

  2. #2
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    Hi Sktibo,

    Have you uploaded your STR results to YSearch? On YSearch there are some modal haplotypes (average STR results for a particular haplogroup) and so you can see which modal haplotype you match most closely. My closest modal haplotype on YSearch is R-L2 which was absolutely right, so it's worth a look.

    From a quick look online PR825 does indeed seem to have been found in those with British origins but I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean that the haplogroup predictor is wrong. There is of course always the chance of an NPE which could confuse things but more likely is that there was movement between the people you descend from and Britain. Also, your DNA may be representing a line which stayed in France when the ancestors of other PR825 people may have moved to Britain at some stage. Basically, I think that it is difficult to categorically call a SNP British, French, Dutch.

    The only way to be sure of course would be to SNP test either with a SNP pack or even better a Big Y/Full Genomes test.

    Hopefully that helps a bit.
    Paternal Y-DNA: U152>L2>BY3508>L135>BY3506 Estimated age of BY3506: 500BC
    Most Distant Known Paternal Ancestor: Patrick Dillon, born around 1790 somewhere in Ireland (possibly County Mayo). Some of his descendants later moved to Manchester, England between the 1820s and 30s.

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     sktibo (10-17-2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by DillonResearcher View Post
    Hi Sktibo,

    Have you uploaded your STR results to YSearch? On YSearch there are some modal haplotypes (average STR results for a particular haplogroup) and so you can see which modal haplotype you match most closely. My closest modal haplotype on YSearch is R-L2 which was absolutely right, so it's worth a look.

    From a quick look online PR825 does indeed seem to have been found in those with British origins but I wouldn't necessarily take that to mean that the haplogroup predictor is wrong. There is of course always the chance of an NPE which could confuse things but more likely is that there was movement between the people you descend from and Britain. Also, your DNA may be representing a line which stayed in France when the ancestors of other PR825 people may have moved to Britain at some stage. Basically, I think that it is difficult to categorically call a SNP British, French, Dutch.

    The only way to be sure of course would be to SNP test either with a SNP pack or even better a Big Y/Full Genomes test.

    Hopefully that helps a bit.
    How do I upload STR results to Ysearch? (assuming that's ysearch.org) I clicked around the site a bit but I'm just not sure what to do with it.

    thank you

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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    So I followed the instructions here: http://www.geneticgenealogist.net/20...roup-from.html

    and using this predictor: https://ytree.morleydna.com/ settings: FTDNA format, experimental tree

    It assigned me R1b1a2a1a2c1f3, or R1b-L430 (R1b-PF825). A quick google search indicated that this is within the British Isles Y haplogroup, but I'm not so sure about that as my surname is a common French one, and I've traced my paternal line to West-Central France in the 1600's. Is it normal for French people to have these "British" Y groups? Am I correct in my assumption that this is a "British" Y line? Is the haplogroup predictor I've used accurate at all?

    Any information helps, I hardly know anything about Y-DNA.

    Thank you very much
    Does your raw DNA file show you positive for L21 15654428 with a G and not C allele? I can't find positions 17596023 L430 (G>C) or 17054132 PF825.2 (G>A) in another AncestryDNA raw DNA file. You should look for those.

    A major problem with any SNP that has a .1 or .2 at the end is that the process you used is not able to determine which one you actually belong to. Another major problem is that the Morley website uses the phylogeny from the 2013 ISOGG tree and not the more updated, albeit, incomplete 2016 ISOGG tree.

    Will you provide a screenshot of the Morley results?

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     sktibo (10-17-2016)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    How do I upload STR results to Ysearch? (assuming that's ysearch.org) I clicked around the site a bit but I'm just not sure what to do with it.

    thank you
    Ysearch does not do haplogroup predictions. All you can do is see if you have a close STR match and if that person has had SNP testing and posted their SNP testing results. Basing your haplogroup off of a match is not foolproof. You need actual SNP testing. The SNP predictor based off of STR markers at http://www.nevgen.org/ isn't 100% accurate even with 67 markers. It is much less accurate with 37 or less markers.

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  9. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    Ysearch does not do haplogroup predictions. All you can do is see if you have a close STR match and if that person has had SNP testing and posted their SNP testing results. Basing your haplogroup off of a match is not foolproof. You need actual SNP testing. The SNP predictor based off of STR markers at http://www.nevgen.org/ isn't 100% accurate even with 67 markers. It is much less accurate with 37 or less markers.
    YSearch do have modal haplotypes though for quite a few haplogroups which I have found work well as good guides to predicting a haplotype. For me it was very accurate with my closest modal haplotypes being L2, then U152 and then P312. After Big Y testing my terminal SNP was shown to be BY3506 which is below L2.
    Paternal Y-DNA: U152>L2>BY3508>L135>BY3506 Estimated age of BY3506: 500BC
    Most Distant Known Paternal Ancestor: Patrick Dillon, born around 1790 somewhere in Ireland (possibly County Mayo). Some of his descendants later moved to Manchester, England between the 1820s and 30s.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DillonResearcher View Post
    YSearch do have modal haplotypes though for quite a few haplogroups which I have found work well as good guides to predicting a haplotype. For me it was very accurate with my closest modal haplotypes being L2, then U152 and then P312. After Big Y testing my terminal SNP was shown to be BY3506 which is below L2.
    Yes, for some instances it can be good. But overall it is not so much. Especially not for people from the continent which as a lot fewer testers. There have been a very high percentage of people that could never get an accurate prediction of their subclade. He has never even posted that he has had STR testing which currently is only done with FTDNA and Yseq. He has only indicated that he has had AncestryDNA testing which tests a limited amount of Y-DNA SNPs. Actual SNP testing is much better and once he posts a screenshot and answers to the questions we'll at least know that he is really L21 but maybe not really R1b-L430 or R1b-PF825.
    Last edited by ArmandoR1b; 10-17-2016 at 11:57 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    How do I upload STR results to Ysearch?
    If you have tested with FTDNA, then there should be a link to Ysearch on your Y-Matches page which supposedly uploads your STRs automatically to Ysearch, however I'm not sure if that's working properly these days.

    The alternative is to go directly to the ysearch.org site and use the Create a New User tab to manually enter your STR values.

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    sktibo, I found a thread where you said that you tested with 23andme. What was your Y-DNA result there? They also test for L21. They would have listed you as R1b1b2a1a2f or R1b1b2a1a2f* if you really are positive for L21.

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    Thanking everyone for their responses here,

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    sktibo, I found a thread where you said that you tested with 23andme. What was your Y-DNA result there? They also test for L21. They would have listed you as R1b1b2a1a2f or R1b1b2a1a2f* if you really are positive for L21.
    I don't think I am L21 positive, my 23andme browser gave me ancestral, not derived, for that marker, and it didn't define my haplogroup further than the generic r1b1b2a1a IIRC... I also did a 5$ promethease test in which the highest marker I got was the P311 (rs9785659). If I'm correct, this also means it's just undefined.
    While I'm at it, this was also found on the promethease report

    " gs262 R1b1a2a1a subclades with hotspots around Normandy, and Milan R1b1a2a1a also known as P312, based on the limited information available with an Ancestry.com test Subclades such as L21 or U152 are also possible *L21 http://www.eupedia.com/images/conten...up-R1b-L21.gif *U152 http://www.eupedia.com/images/conten...up-R1b-S28.gif http://boards.ancestry.com/topics.dnaresearch.generalresearch/772.2.1.1.1.1.1.1.3.1.1.1.1/mb.ashx"

    I don't know if this is found on all of them or if it's specific to mine.

    Screenshot of the Morley Report.. unsure if this is what is needed. This was using the AncestryDNA results, the 23andme results were the same except the first prediction was R1b1a2a1a R1b-L11 (R1b-L151, R1b-YSC0000082).

    Attachment 12209

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