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Thread: Any members of the I-Z140 Project here?

  1. #181
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    On the subject of FT35578, I sent a request to YSEQ under their Wish a SNP option to see what they thought. They responded pretty quickly and said "unfortunately your wished SNP is located in a region which shows a very high homology to a fragment on the X chromosome. We do not recommend this SNP. We are sorry! Best, the YSEQ team!"

    FT35578 6221755 A to T 97.7% chrX + 93107222 93108190 969

    I'm happy to pay less than a quid to find out that FT35578 isn't really worth worrying about too much.

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  3. #182
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    William the admin from the I-Z140 project recently posted some STR based dendrogram diagrams on the I-Z140 Facebook page - plan was to encourage some folks in the basecamp at I-F2642 and I-Z2535 (the two largest subgroups of I-Z140) who they match the closest on STR basis and where they might want to look for testing downstream SNPs. If you've done Big Y, YElite or WGS you don't need to worry about downstream SNP testing, but it can also maybe point you towards folks that you might want to encourage. Of course, it goes without saying that SNP matches override STR matches - convergence (or more likely a lack of divergence) is an issue in our haplogroup.

    I think at least a couple of you aren't involved in the Facebook group, but William's posts reminded me of when I played with some of these tools last year, so I thought I'd share here as well. The tools are pretty easy to use, the analysis is fast and also free. It comes from a website called Scaled Innovation by Robin Spencer, and he has a subsection based on genetic genealogy called Tracking Back which can be found here: http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/gg.html

    You can use any project at FTDNA, although some of the bigger ones might be problematic. I tried the main I1 FTDNA project and it took a long time and then crashed, but the I-Z140 project works fine. You can get some more visual representations of the project that look a bit prettier than a list of results.

    Cladogram for the I-Z140 project: cladogram.png
    Umbrella 1 is the main I-Z140 branch that almost everyone falls into. Some folks are a little diverged from the main I-Z140 STR signature and some folks have joined the FTDNA project who are not I-Z140. Under the umbrella there are a few distinct STR clades - some of these overlap with downstream SNP clades but there are also some people who fall outside by not diverging enough and looking like they are closer to someone else. If there's a conflict, go with the SNPs rather than the STRs in >99% of cases.
    For the regular readers and commenters on this thread, JonikW and myself are under umbrella 24 which corresponds largely (although not perfectly) with the I-L338 group, although we don't fall into any of the smaller umbrellas beneath that. JMcB and his close STR matches fall under umbrella 13 and with Spruithean under the larger umbrella 12 above that.
    Also generate distance distribution: distance distribution.png
    Branched dendrograms: Branched.JPG
    Circular dendrograms: Circular Dendogram.JPG

    In some of these I had to do a screencapture to show the structure and that loses some of the detail. It's best if you load the data into your tool and process on your own computer as then you'll be able to zoom in closer and there is an option in Robin's tools to highlight one kit which makes it easier to find on the dendrogram. Have a go and let me know if you need help processing.

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  5. #183
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    Can also do this at with the data in the I1-Z140 group at YFull. There are less people in the I1-Z140 group at YFull than the group at FTDNA, and not everyone who has uploaded to YFull has joined the I1-Z140 group. But it does allow comparison using the extra post Y111 STRs at YFull (up to 780 STRs). Again, if there's a discrepancy between SNP data and STR data, go with the SNP data. STRs don't override SNPs.
    As it's a smaller sample size, some of the diagrams are a little less crowded.
    Cladogram: cladogram.png
    Again, the "1" umbrella is I-Z140 overall, JonikW sneaks into smaller umbrella 5 although he doesn't match a lot of the other folks under 5 based on SNP data. JMcB fits under number 3 on that cladogram, again with quite a few who don't match SNPs. I'm not close enough with anyone to get included in the smaller groups. I think the greater number of STRs that are slow mutating means that there are less differences and therefore the relationships appear closer than they are. Again, if there's a conflict, go with the SNP data.
    Distance distribution: distance distribution (1).png
    branched dengram: Branched Dendogram.JPG
    Circular dendogram: Circular Dendrogram.JPG

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  7. #184
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    Those are cool!

    I’ll have to check out his site and see how my iPad handles it
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  9. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Those are cool!

    I’ll have to check out his site and see how my iPad handles it
    They are cool - they're pretty easy to do on my computer, but I don't know how this works on an iPad. My guess is not well. I can think of a couple of potential workarounds if you get stuck but I don't have an iPad of my own to troubleshoot on. Give it a try and we can talk more about potential ways to get this working if you're having no joy.

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  11. #186
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    General instructions for FTDNA project:

    Go to any FTDNA project page (as long as you have access or it is public), then DNA Results, then Classic Chart.
    If the results go on for more than one page adjust page size to 1000 on top left above the results. If you want, you can eliminate the lower marker matches (Y12, Y25, etc.) on the filter to the left of page size.
    Hit ctrl+A or select all.
    Hit ctrl+c or copy.
    Go to Scaled Innovation Tracking Back webpage, then Tools, then YSTR Clustering and Dendrogram Generation here http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/yClustering.html
    Hit "Clear" or delete the text in the "input data" box.
    Hit ctrl+v or paste into the "input data" box.
    Hit "Start the Analysis" blue button. Should be fast. May be longer if a lot of kits.
    Once in, toggle through the options, especially on the Dendrogram header - you can chose to display by kit number, name, SNP, etc and you'll be able to highlight your kit or whichever one you're trying to find.

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  13. #187
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    For YFull, go to I1-Z140 YFull group from your YFull homepage.
    From top menu in Groups view, go to Y Results and the drop-down menu, select "view Y-STRs classic"
    Default is 12 STRs - click on the "All" button next to view. This may take a while to load.
    Download the results (button to the right of the buttons that select the number of STRs).
    Open the downloaded xls file.
    Save the file as a csv file.
    Go to http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/yClustering.html
    Drag and drop the csv file into the "input data" box.
    Once it's finished importing, hit "Start the Analysis" blue button.

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  15. #188
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    Robin Spencer's Scaled Innovation website has a new tool: SNP Tracker: http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

    Easy to use - type in a branch or terminal SNP in the box at the top left and hit "Go" - it'll display a migration pathway based on the upstream SNPs that lead to the terminal.

    It uses FTDNA's public Y-DNA haplotree so make sure that you use the FTDNA nomenclature (eg. CTS10937 rather than Z2538). It won't find novel SNPs/private variants that are not on the FTDNA haplotree and if there's not enough geographical data associated SNP (say if all testers have "unknown" as their paternal ancestor location) then it might not display.

    It's pretty similar in principle to Hunter Provyn's Phylogeographer/Mygrations website and it tags locations based on an average of the locations where FTDNA testers have self reported their locations. So if you're part of a branch of I-Z140 that includes testers in the British Isles, Scandinavia, Continental Europe then you may find your branch appearing in the North Sea. This doesn't mean Doggerland - it's just down to averaged out locations on different sides of the North Sea.

    Also like Hunter's tool, it's based on self-reported locations from modern testers and subject to potential errors from data source and the theoretical migration paths are inferred from the data of modern testers - the actual route taken may not have been the one displayed. Think of it as a guide rather than "proof". But it's a nice tool and you can overlay different migration pathways, so have a play with it if you're interested.

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  17. #189
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    That’s pretty cool!

    Here’s mine:


    4317B48D-8B9C-4754-8415-23FFD22B5F33.jpeg


    Considering the information we currently have, it seems just about right.

    As William likes to say, a work in progress.
    Last edited by JMcB; 04-16-2019 at 03:05 PM.
    Known Paper Trail: 45.3% English, 29.7% Scottish, 12.5% Irish, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian. Or: 87.5% British Isles, 6.25% German & 6.25% Italian.
    LivingDNA: 88.1% British Isles (59.7% English, 27% Scottish & 1.3% Irish), 5.9% Europe South (Aegian 3.4%, Tuscany 1.3%, Sardinia 1.1%), 4.4% Europe NW (Scandinavia) & 1.6% Europe East, (Mordovia).
    FT Big Y: I1-Z140 branch I-F2642 >Y1966 >Y3649 >A13241 >Y3647 >A13248 (circa 930 AD) >A13242/YSEQ (circa 1075 AD) >A13243/YSEQ (circa 1660 AD).

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  19. #190
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    So far my route ends in the North Sea. I guess A14097 isn't in the tree yet.
    Y-DNA: I-A14097(Scotland),
    Big Y: I-F2642>Y1966>Y3649>A13241>Y3647>A14097 (1,850 YBP)
    mtDNA: pending (Westeremden, Netherlands)
    Other lines:
    R-M222 x2, R-L21 x2, I-M223, R-S1141, R-U198 & R-U106, mtHg J1c3
    Known ancestry
    Paternal: Britain & Ireland, France and Germany
    Maternal: Netherlands

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