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Thread: Any members of the I-Z140 Project here?

  1. #21
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    They are usually extremely quick at turning around results as long as they have the requisite primers in stock. Future results may be even quicker now that they have your sample in storage you can order extra tests on that sample and you don't need to pay shipping

    I'll have a go at explaining your results. The main piece of data is that you're negative for S1990 - that's what the G- means. If you had been positive for S1990 it would have said A+.

    The other data that you receive is because YSEQ scan a region around the Y chromosome for the SNP that you ordered (in this case S1990), and if a known marker pops up, they report it. They say that in most cases this data is not very useful to the tester, but they provide it on the off chance that it is.

    This means that when you look at the tree diagram on YSEQ's Z140 panel, you can ignore all the SNPs in blue that come after S1990 (A1631, A8601, A375, etc.) so the single SNP test was a good idea since you already knew you were S12289 - would have good a lot of negative results for your $88.

    From here there are four possibilities on the known Z140 haplotree that are S12289+ and S1990-. There is also a fifth possibility - you may be on a branch of S12289 that isn't known yet, so be prepared for that.

    The four known SNP divisions are A4577, A12722, A12704, A1818. There are several SNPs that are currently phyloequivalent in each of the groups as the current tree hasn't broken them up yet. You can see on the YFull tree here https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Z140/ but also bear in mind that not everyone has uploaded to YFull, so it's a partial picture.

    If you wanted to try and refine further, the first one I'd suggest would be the SNPs in the A1818 group. My reasoning is that has the most testers and definition compared to the other three subgroups. A1818 is available as a single SNP from YSEQ. Interestingly, the SNP BY461/Y8333 (they are the same SNP with different names - confusing) which is the branch point on the YSEQ Z140 SNP pack, I can't find that one available as a single SNP on YSEQ's website, but they must clearly have the primers since it's part of their Z140 SNP pack.

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     JonikW (11-15-2017)

  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    They are usually extremely quick at turning around results as long as they have the requisite primers in stock. Future results may be even quicker now that they have your sample in storage you can order extra tests on that sample and you don't need to pay shipping

    I'll have a go at explaining your results. The main piece of data is that you're negative for S1990 - that's what the G- means. If you had been positive for S1990 it would have said A+.

    The other data that you receive is because YSEQ scan a region around the Y chromosome for the SNP that you ordered (in this case S1990), and if a known marker pops up, they report it. They say that in most cases this data is not very useful to the tester, but they provide it on the off chance that it is.

    This means that when you look at the tree diagram on YSEQ's Z140 panel, you can ignore all the SNPs in blue that come after S1990 (A1631, A8601, A375, etc.) so the single SNP test was a good idea since you already knew you were S12289 - would have good a lot of negative results for your $88.

    From here there are four possibilities on the known Z140 haplotree that are S12289+ and S1990-. There is also a fifth possibility - you may be on a branch of S12289 that isn't known yet, so be prepared for that.

    The four known SNP divisions are A4577, A12722, A12704, A1818. There are several SNPs that are currently phyloequivalent in each of the groups as the current tree hasn't broken them up yet. You can see on the YFull tree here https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Z140/ but also bear in mind that not everyone has uploaded to YFull, so it's a partial picture.

    If you wanted to try and refine further, the first one I'd suggest would be the SNPs in the A1818 group. My reasoning is that has the most testers and definition compared to the other three subgroups. A1818 is available as a single SNP from YSEQ. Interestingly, the SNP BY461/Y8333 (they are the same SNP with different names - confusing) which is the branch point on the YSEQ Z140 SNP pack, I can't find that one available as a single SNP on YSEQ's website, but they must clearly have the primers since it's part of their Z140 SNP pack.
    That's very useful indeed and thanks again for such informed guidance. I'll start with A1818 and post the result here when I receive it.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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     deadly77 (11-16-2017)

  5. #23
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    Update: I could see BY461/Y8333 as a single SNP test and so ordered that. Thanks again and I'll post my result when it's in.
    Last edited by JonikW; 11-15-2017 at 11:52 AM.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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     deadly77 (11-16-2017)

  7. #24
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    I must have missed it - that's the right choice. So far everyone who is A1818+ is BY461+.

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     JonikW (11-16-2017)

  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    I must have missed it - that's the right choice. So far everyone who is A1818+ is BY461+.
    Well, this is interesting and I hope I can get some help again. I've already come back Y8333 C-. Would you advise testing one of A4577, A12722 or A12704 next? The prices and turnaround times are fantastic so I'd like to keep going. I realise I may be on an undiscovered line though, as you pointed out. My father's line has deep roots in the Peak District (Anglian Mercia) but I have no idea if that makes one of the above SNPs more likely. My goal really is to get to a TMRCA comfortably into the migration period rather than a genealogical timeframe. I'm still hoping an Olalde-scale dream paper lands in my lifetime covering that period across the whole North Sea region with some Z140 in it!
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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     JMcB (11-18-2017)

  11. #26
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    I'd go with A12722 next. It's the largest of the the three remaining. I'm not sure if that's because of abundance or just more people have tested. From looking at the self reported most distant Y-ancestor, the majority in that group trace back to late 1600s Virginia, although most of them list England as country of origin - there is one guy in that group who reports an ancestor in Staffordshire, England and another from Sweden.
    The TMRCA time frame as estimated in the YFull link for these SNPs are in the 2500-2800 years ago range - maybe a bit earlier than what you're looking for. Of course some of those could get closer in time as we learn more, more people test and we can fill in more blanks.
    This reminds me a bit of a discussion I had earlier this year with someone who was helping a descendant of George Soule of the Mayflower. He ended up doing the YSEQ Z140 pack which got him to S12289 and then he went and tested the three additional SNPs that were not part of the pack - negative for all three. I believe they were going to do a Big Y, so that would be at least one new branch of S12289.
    I'm in a similar position - I'm one step above you on the tree at L338 - I tested negative at YSEQ for S12289 and the other known branches below L338. That subgroup of YSC261+ and L338+ is actually the largest subgroup in the Z140 project. Some of them will be S12289 or other known branches (just not tested yet) and some will be new branches of L338.

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  13. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    I'd go with A12722 next. It's the largest of the the three remaining. I'm not sure if that's because of abundance or just more people have tested. From looking at the self reported most distant Y-ancestor, the majority in that group trace back to late 1600s Virginia, although most of them list England as country of origin - there is one guy in that group who reports an ancestor in Staffordshire, England and another from Sweden.
    The TMRCA time frame as estimated in the YFull link for these SNPs are in the 2500-2800 years ago range - maybe a bit earlier than what you're looking for. Of course some of those could get closer in time as we learn more, more people test and we can fill in more blanks.
    This reminds me a bit of a discussion I had earlier this year with someone who was helping a descendant of George Soule of the Mayflower. He ended up doing the YSEQ Z140 pack which got him to S12289 and then he went and tested the three additional SNPs that were not part of the pack - negative for all three. I believe they were going to do a Big Y, so that would be at least one new branch of S12289.
    I'm in a similar position - I'm one step above you on the tree at L338 - I tested negative at YSEQ for S12289 and the other known branches below L338. That subgroup of YSC261+ and L338+ is actually the largest subgroup in the Z140 project. Some of them will be S12289 or other known branches (just not tested yet) and some will be new branches of L338.
    That's all very interesting. Thanks once again for your advice as well as the fascinating extra info. Staffordshire also sounds hopeful given my background. I've ordered A12722 and will let you know the result.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    I'd go with A12722 next. It's the largest of the the three remaining. I'm not sure if that's because of abundance or just more people have tested. From looking at the self reported most distant Y-ancestor, the majority in that group trace back to late 1600s Virginia, although most of them list England as country of origin - there is one guy in that group who reports an ancestor in Staffordshire, England and another from Sweden.
    The TMRCA time frame as estimated in the YFull link for these SNPs are in the 2500-2800 years ago range - maybe a bit earlier than what you're looking for. Of course some of those could get closer in time as we learn more, more people test and we can fill in more blanks.
    This reminds me a bit of a discussion I had earlier this year with someone who was helping a descendant of George Soule of the Mayflower. He ended up doing the YSEQ Z140 pack which got him to S12289 and then he went and tested the three additional SNPs that were not part of the pack - negative for all three. I believe they were going to do a Big Y, so that would be at least one new branch of S12289.
    I'm in a similar position - I'm one step above you on the tree at L338 - I tested negative at YSEQ for S12289 and the other known branches below L338. That subgroup of YSC261+ and L338+ is actually the largest subgroup in the Z140 project. Some of them will be S12289 or other known branches (just not tested yet) and some will be new branches of L338.
    Once again, a very fast turnaround from YSEQ and once again ancestral, with a T- for A12722. I'm starting to feel like I am indeed on an unknown branch. However, I'm delighted to have eliminated the two biggest branches as well as the latest one. I hope that one day I may be able to afford a full Y test, but in the meantime I'm happy to pay only 28GBP to test the remaining two SNPs that you know of. So, would you go for A4577 or A12704 next, and are these also in the 2500-2800 years ago range? Many thanks again for all your help
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

  16. #29
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    Good to hear that you're positive about eliminating possibilities - that's a great attitude to have. I would go for A4577 next ahead of A12704, but I guess once you have done one then there is no other choice until other branches are established. If you're willing to sling an extra SNP, it may be worth checking S12289 at YSEQ to verify the Scotland's DNA result. I got a bit concerned when I was turning up negative for most of the branches below L338, so I tested that one and that came out L338+.

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  18. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    Good to hear that you're positive about eliminating possibilities - that's a great attitude to have. I would go for A4577 next ahead of A12704, but I guess once you have done one then there is no other choice until other branches are established. If you're willing to sling an extra SNP, it may be worth checking S12289 at YSEQ to verify the Scotland's DNA result. I got a bit concerned when I was turning up negative for most of the branches below L338, so I tested that one and that came out L338+.
    Thanks again for your thoughtful advice. I've ordered A4577. If it comes to A12704 next I think I will indeed also order S12289 just to verify. Yes, I'm very happy to have discovered what I'm not derived for (previously I'd assumed S1990 was most likely with my background), as well as having not spent out a bigger sum on negative results by avoiding the Z140 panel from the start. I'll post my result here...
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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