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Thread: Got my results- middle eastern???

  1. #1
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    Got my results- middle eastern???

    I received my Ancestry DNA results as I was curious what it would come back as. My known background is both parents are Italian decent. My moms parents were from Naples and Potenza areas and my dads parents are from the Calabria and Central Sicily areas. I figured the test would most likely come back as Italian and it did. The results were as follows

    Italy/Greece- 73%
    Middle East- 13%
    Causcaus- 10%
    Spanish- 1%
    North African- <1%
    European Jewish- <1%
    Great Britain- <1%

    The Italian was no surprise. I'm surprised I don't have much in the line of Northern, & Western Europe. Where did all that middle eastern come from? And when did it get introduced to my line? The Causcaus and Middle East regions overlap quite a bit on ancestry's. I'm assuming I am mostly Arab, Turkish, and Persian from those regions. I ran my kit through Gedmatch and it's shows even more middle eastern Ancestry than the Ancestry DNA showed, upwards close to 45-50 percent in some calculators. Some of the gedmatch calculators said I had Jewish ancestry as well. The best guess from looking at it I'm 3/4 Italian/Sicilian and 1/4 non-specific middle eastern. I wish they could break down the Ancestry more regionally.

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    Your Middle East and Caucasus scores come from prehistoric migrations from 10,000-3,000 years ago, from the Neolithic and Bronze Age periods. It has nothing to do with modern populations, that's just how the algos these tests use label it.

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    That would make sense that the middle eastern portion is ancient DNA. As far as I can trace back my family and through stories past down they have always been from Italy. Although in my research, I have found that two of the towns that my grandmother and grandfather come from in Calabria and Sicily were known to be Arab towns back in the Middle Ages, so some of it could be more recent possibly but I will never know for sure. Someday DNA testing may be able to separate ancient and more recent Ancestry. I feel like this whole field is so new, I wouldn't be suprised if my test results change some over time and get more accurate

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmv74 View Post
    That would make sense that the middle eastern portion is ancient DNA. As far as I can trace back my family and through stories past down they have always been from Italy. Although in my research, I have found that two of the towns that my grandmother and grandfather come from in Calabria and Sicily were known to be Arab towns back in the Middle Ages, so some of it could be more recent possibly but I will never know for sure. Someday DNA testing may be able to separate ancient and more recent Ancestry. I feel like this whole field is so new, I wouldn't be suprised if my test results change some over time and get more accurate
    Which towns exactly? All the Moors who survived the Norman conquest (plus native converts) were forcibly removed from Sicily by the 12th/13th century and there were no "Arab" towns in Calabria; the latter were subjected to Saracen raids along the coast but they never occupied any territory for any period of time.

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    Reggio Calabria and Enna in Sicily. Still learning about their histories it seems many different ethnicities and peoples have gone through those areas through history, even if they didn't leave an imprint on the people they impacted the culture and language. Being a history buff, I find this stuff pretty fascinating
    Last edited by pmv74; 10-21-2016 at 12:25 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmv74 View Post
    I received my Ancestry DNA results as I was curious what it would come back as. My known background is both parents are Italian decent. My moms parents were from Naples and Potenza areas and my dads parents are from the Calabria and Central Sicily areas. I figured the test would most likely come back as Italian and it did. The results were as follows

    Italy/Greece- 73%
    Middle East- 13%
    Causcaus- 10%
    Spanish- 1%
    North African- <1%
    European Jewish- <1%
    Great Britain- <1%

    The Italian was no surprise. I'm surprised I don't have much in the line of Northern, & Western Europe. Where did all that middle eastern come from? And when did it get introduced to my line? The Causcaus and Middle East regions overlap quite a bit on ancestry's. I'm assuming I am mostly Arab, Turkish, and Persian from those regions. I ran my kit through Gedmatch and it's shows even more middle eastern Ancestry than the Ancestry DNA showed, upwards close to 45-50 percent in some calculators. Some of the gedmatch calculators said I had Jewish ancestry as well. The best guess from looking at it I'm 3/4 Italian/Sicilian and 1/4 non-specific middle eastern. I wish they could break down the Ancestry more regionally.
    pmv74, did you take a Y-dna test? What town are you from in Potenza? I am half Lucanian (Basilicata) and half Sicilian. My fathers family is from Potenza province and my mothers from Agrigento province in Sicily. Definitely Italian is to be expected after all thats all our recent ancestors, in general Southern Italians do not get much if not any Northern or Western European so don't worry your not different, in terms of the Arab towns in Calabria and Sicily, they were Berber towns meaning North African, your % is very low and your tests reflect barely if not zero ancestry from the Emirate of Sicily period, versus to compare to my results I have 4% North African and every test gives me this result, so its confirmed. Calabria had very short lived emirates to my recollection there was one in Cosenza, possibly Reggio held Muslims fleeing the Normans, maybe? There was cases of conversions and the ones who didn't were deported to Lucera in Foggia and surrounding villages. There was also emirates in both Basilicata and Campania, the Amalfi coast was under the Saracens for a brief period of time and in Basilicata there was Tricarico and Tursi which is general knowledge in the region, I was in Italy this summer and my cousins were telling me about the history of Tursi as its a neighbouring village.

    In terms of your Middle East and Caucus, the Caucasian component would reflect ancient migration, thats 10% solved in your case, the 13% Middle Eastern I wouldn't go to early to say its ancient migration, there could be something there. Possibilities to explore would be the following during the Roman Empire, Roman citizenship was granted to all its citizens meaning that people can move wherever they want, Italy was the richest at the time chances are more people would want to move to Italy, many Syrians came during this period. The Byzantines had control of all the places where your family is from, Byzantines had the Eastern Mediterranean so its not impossible that some migration had during this period. There is also the possibility of Phoenician ancestors as they were a maritime mediterranean trading super power, they had two settlements in Sicily and they would live in the Greek colonies of Magna Graecia (Southern Italy), and there is the possibility of Jewish ancestry as well, Southern Italy had a Jewish population up until the Inquisition, many were forced to convert and would become New Christians, even though your Jewish ancestry is low on the test it cannot be ruled out.

    I too agree it would be better if they break it down more regionally, as time goes on and the methods progress I think eventually they will.
    Last edited by Principe; 10-21-2016 at 04:49 AM.

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    Principe, I have not taken y-DNA test. My grandmother and her side of the family are from the town of potenza in basilicata. I think depending on where you are from the DNA could vary slightly from person to person. Some towns may have have more Greek and some may have more Arab or North African or Norman. But from what I'm learning most southern Italians and Sicilians have mostly the same DNA regardless. The Jewish populations in Italy you also spoke of shows up on a lot when I run the gedmatch calculators in the oracles. The Ashkanazi and Sephardic Jewish are always one of my top matches just below the eastern Sicilian and southern Italian populations. So maybe the middle eastern results I got from AncestryDna are Jewish in nature
    Last edited by pmv74; 10-21-2016 at 05:06 PM.

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    Very typical for southern Italians and Greeks to score West Asian/Mid-Eastern in most tests.

    Could be something ancient, but perhaps even something more recent and historical.

    Ancient Romans wrote often about how Levantines/West Asians were the main group of immigrants to the Italian peninsula. Since southern Italy is geographically closer, most of them would have settled there, but even Northern Italy seems to have been affected:

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmv74 View Post
    Principe, I have not taken y-DNA test. My grandmother and her side of the family are from the town of potenza in basilicata. I think depending on where you are from the DNA could vary slightly from person to person. Some towns may have have more Greek and some may have more Arab or North African or Norman. But from what I'm learning most southern Italians and Sicilians have mostly the same DNA regardless. The Jewish populations in Italy you also spoke of shows up on a lot when I run the gedmatch calculators in the oracles. The Ashkanazi and Sephardic Jewish are always one of my top matches just below the eastern Sicilian and southern Italian populations. So maybe the middle eastern results I got from AncestryDna are Jewish in nature
    You should take the Y-test it can tell your deep paternal ancestry, very interesting. Potenza isn't technically a town as its the capital of Basilicata and has a population of 67 000, its still relatively small. Norman ancestry would be easier to detect as that would appear as Northern European blood or getting a typical Northern Y line. In terms of Greek, North African, Arab, and Levantine it all depends where and which villages you come from. Southern Italians, Sicilians and Maltese are virtually inseparable in terms of autosomal dna, we are half way between Middle Eastern and Western European. With Jewish Dna yes we are very close and share an ancestral component with Jewish populations to have Jewish dna that can be verified through Y, Mt and Triangulation on Gedmatch, Its very possible that the Middle Eastern showing up in your results might in fact be Jewish, all four regions you are from had Jewish populations, there has been Jewish communities in Italy dating back to Roman Republic era.

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    Can you please share some gedmatch calcs and oracles? Maybe something like eurogenes k15 v2, dodecad v3 and mdlp k23b?

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