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Thread: L21+ DF13+ DF21+ in La Spezia (Italy)

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Valerius View Post
    Hi there, another result from Yseq! Basso is Z16294-
    Has he tested for BY518

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneillabu View Post
    Has he tested for BY518
    Basso has not yet been tested for BY518

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by oneillabu View Post
    Basso was first recorded in Verona in the 13th Century however we also know that S5488 existed in Ireland over four thousand years ago, that is not to say that there may be other non Irish S5488 Bell beaker tribes because I believe that S5488 is over 4500 years old . . .
    If you are right about the age of S5488, then it is extremely unlikely it originated in Ireland, since the oldest Beaker burials there date to about 2300 BC, that is, unless one wants to argue that S5488 predates Bell Beaker in Ireland.
     


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    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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  7. #14
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    Hi there,
    The Basso surname is very common in Northen Italy and I think this surname has several origins, in fact on ysearch there's another Basso from Asiago (Vicenza) E1b1b2a2. In Italy there's a variant of surname Basso: Bassi and on Ysearch there's Mr. Bassi from Mantova (Mantua) G2a3b1

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  9. #15
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    I noticed on L21 project another L21 from La Spezia, Mr. Scattini, but he seems very different from Basso.

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     Power77 (11-16-2016)

  11. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titus Valerius View Post
    Hi there,
    The Basso surname is very common in Northen Italy and I think this surname has several origins, in fact on ysearch there's another Basso from Asiago (Vicenza) E1b1b2a2. In Italy there's a variant of surname Basso: Bassi and on Ysearch there's Mr. Bassi from Mantova (Mantua) G2a3b1
    The Asiago Basso paternal has been living in Asigo Vicenza from 1757 ....

    the La Spezia Basso line would seem to be from Cinque Terre area a small town called Vernazza
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cinque_Terre
    ..................I have stayed there for a few days near Castello Doria

    https://www.wikitree.com/photo/jpg/Basso_Name_Study-1


    I spent many a night in the wine-bars ...all called Enoteca ( ligurian language ) ..........similar setups to the Venetian wine-bars called Bacaro ( venetian language )
    Last edited by vettor; 11-16-2016 at 05:29 PM.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

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  13. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    If you are right about the age of S5488, then it is extremely unlikely it originated in Ireland, since the oldest Beaker burials there date to about 2300 BC, that is, unless one wants to argue that S5488 predates Bell Beaker in Ireland.
    There are Bell beakers sites all over Ireland, these Rathlin DF21 people did not just travel from the continent on their own build a grave and then fall into it, I superimposed a map of Cist Burial sites throughout Ireland over a map showing of the location of stone circles and there is a definite correlation between them, we really do not know how long DF21 has been in Ireland or whether DF21 is an ancient Isles proto Celtic type that may have been involved in the construction of Stonehenge which has been dated between 2000 and 3000 BC, equally some have dated the construction of Newgrange to this same time period and given that they both fulfil the same function of recording the Solstice period I am firmly of the opinion that they were built by the same people, indeed there are similar constructions to Newgrange in Wales and Orkney in Scotland.

    The age of S5488 must be calculated from the very large Genetic distances between its different branches and these branches are overwhelmingly Isles based, if you were to jump on every European result as proof of origin then Sweden would be top of the list however as we see from the results we nearly always get an Isles based match that is their closest relative, even 382256 Johannes Bryngelsson who is the most likely Scandanavian result has a Genetic Distance of 38 to another R-BY12129 Irish ancestor with which places their common ancestor around 2500 years ago which is too short for any kind of an origin theory. The fact is we simply do not know but we must try to piece together what we have to come up with theories that are plausible and not rule anything out till we know more, I am not adverse to a continental origin because we are talking between 4000 to 5000 years old, you will recall that I speculated some time ago on DF21 being associated with the BOII Celtic tribe who are reputed to be connected with the Tuatha De Dannan, maybe an Italian DF21 Cluster will support that theory

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    If you are right about the age of S5488, then it is extremely unlikely it originated in Ireland, since the oldest Beaker burials there date to about 2300 BC, that is, unless one wants to argue that S5488 predates Bell Beaker in Ireland.
    Your data set is incomplete. Non burial archaeological evidence of Beakers in Ireland predates earliest known Beaker burials in Ireland.

    First evidence of Beaker presence is circa 2500 BC. See this thread and link to paper:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ach-to-the-Set

    See also "The Age of Stonehenge" by Mike Parker Pearson, one of the preeminent active archaeologists in the Isles, which places the earliest convincing evidence of Beaker in England around 2500 BC, and possibly considerably earlier.
    Last edited by miiser; 11-16-2016 at 09:50 PM.

  16. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by miiser View Post
    Your data set is incomplete. Non burial archaeological evidence of Beakers in Ireland predates earliest known Beaker burials in Ireland.

    First evidence of Beaker presence is circa 2500 BC. See this thread and link to paper:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ach-to-the-Set

    See also "The Age of Stonehenge" by Mike Parker Pearson, one of the preeminent active archaeologists in the Isles, which places the earliest convincing evidence of Beaker in England around 2500 BC, and possibly considerably earlier.
    There were also Beaker burials in Megalithic tombs as well which implies a connection and a continuation of an ancient practice, the fact is that the oldest Celtic DNA in Britain is DF21 (Hinxton man) and the oldest in Ireland is the Rathlin DF21 so this implies that pre Roman Celtic Britain contained DF21, now this is either an Irish migration or an ancient DF21 British line, there are simply to many similarities for these to be unconnected, it is also possible if not probable that Celtic DNA left Britain with the Romans because many collaborated with them and adopted Roman ways, like I said there is so much we don't know but we must look to the evidence we have to try and piece it together

  17. #20
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    Hi there,
    I have found on web the coat of arms of the Basso family .
    https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basso_(famiglia)
    It's certainly a coincidence, but this coat of arms resembles the Scottish https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stemma_Reale_di_Scozia
    Last edited by Titus Valerius; 11-17-2016 at 09:10 AM.

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