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Thread: M73 - the best proxy for what R1b was doing 8000 years ago?

  1. #61
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    R1b M73

    Interesting..being a M73 myself.

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  3. #62
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    R1b-Z2103>Y14416

    Quote Originally Posted by saltranger View Post
    Interesting..being a M73 myself.
    Welcome to Anthrogenica. There is a lot to learn about R1b-M73 haplogroup. This is especially true when it come to developing the phylogenetic haplotree. If you have not already, please join the R1b Basal Subclades - R1b-M343 (xP312 xU106) Project. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background
    YFull R1b-M269>L23>Z2103>Z2106>Z2108>Y14512>Y20971>Y22199, ISOGG R1b1a1a2a2c1b Y14416, FTDNA R-M64

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  5. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltranger View Post
    Interesting..being a M73 myself.
    Welcome!

    I see you are of Turki origin.
    Until now I have come across M73 in South Asia only among confirmed Turko/Mongol descendants - among the Hazara and the Baralas.

    If I may ask - what is your tribe/clan?
    Thanks.

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  7. #64
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    R1b M73

    I am of Barlas tribe. Could you tell who other Barlas have you come across? Thanks
    Last edited by saltranger; 05-26-2016 at 02:04 PM.

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  9. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by saltranger View Post
    I am of Barlas tribe. Could you tell who other Barlas have you come across? Thanks
    The one I was referring to is QXFR6 on ysearch.
    QXFR6 Faisal M Jhelum, Pakistan 13 19 14 10 13 13 12 12 14 14 13 30 17 9 11 11 23 15 19 32 12 12 12 12 15 16 10 10 19 25 15 12 10 11 13 13


    Maybe it is you?

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  11. #66
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    R1b M73

    Yes thats me.

  12. #67
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    There is a basal R-M73(xM478) branch found in Western Europe (probably at least Alsace and Devon judging from the R1b Basal Subclades Project at FTDNA) whose MRCA with the main R-M478 clade dates back to some time between 13,300 ybp and 7,300 ybp (or between 14,900 ybp and 6,100 ybp if one takes YFull's 95% confidence intervals into account). The terminus post quem, 13,300 [95% 11,800 <-> 14,900] ybp, is the MRCA of R-M478 and R-M269, who belonged to R-P297.

    The main R1b-M478 clade may be divided into two subclades, R-L1432 and R-Y20750. The MRCA of these two subclades dates back to 7,300 [95% CI 6,100 <-> 8,500] ybp according to YFull, which means that their MRCA probably lived in roughly the same era as (or in a slightly earlier era than) the MRCA of R-M269.

    R-L1432 appears to contain very little extant diversity, with the members currently tabulated by YFull having an estimated TMRCA of 1,500 [95% CI 1,150 <-> 1,900] ybp, i.e. most likely descending from a common ancestor who lived some time in the first millennium CE. These members include at least two Russians, a Ukrainian, an individual from Shandong, China, and DA93, which is the remains of a medieval nomad¹ (radiocarbon 14C date: 1203 +- 50 BP uncal) buried on the right bank of the middle reach of the Irtysh River in what is now the village of Karaoba (Spartak), Aktogay District, Pavlodar Region in northeastern Kazakhstan. Most (perhaps all) extant members of R-L1432 share the distinctive Y-STR value DYS390=19. DYS385 tends to be 13-13, but one of 94 Uzbeks from Jawzjan, Afghanistan (sample ID: UZ8_94) in the data set of Di Cristofaro et al. (2013) has DYS385=12-13 instead. DYS389 tends to be 14-16 (or 14-30 depending on the reporting standard), but the major Kumandin lineage has DYS389=13-16 according to Dulik et al. (2012); DYS389=13-16 also has been observed in a Kyrgyz from southwestern Kyrgyzstan and in an individual from Gilan, Iran according to Di Cristofaro et al. (2013). Malyarchuk et al. (2011) reported a haplotype of an Altaian R-M73 individual with DYS389=14-15. All five R-M478 Mongols (2/18 central Mongolia, 1/23 southeastern Mongolia, and 2/97 northwestern Mongolia) from the data set of Di Cristofaro et al. (2013) have the modal values DYS390=19, DYS385=13-13, DYS389=14-16, as do the R-M73 Kalmyks (2/60) and Tuvinians (2/108) from the data set of Malyarchuk et al. (2011). Judging from entries in the R1b Basal Subclades Project at FTDNA, the R-BY17659 branch of R-L1432 is found among the Qypshaq tribe of the Kazakhs (or at least their Qara-Qypshaq subgroup), and the R-BY17657 or R-BY42301 branch of R-L1432 is found among the Karakalpak people of western Uzbekistan. Ashirbekov et al. (2017) have found R-M478 in 41.4% (12/29) of a sample of Qypshaq Kazakhs.

    R-Y20750 has an estimated TMRCA of 5,300 [95% CI 4,200 <-> 6,500] ybp. However, this clade owes its relatively ancient TMRCA estimate to an R-Y20750(xY20748) lineage represented by an individual from Kabardino-Balkaria in the North Caucasus. Many members of R-Y20750, including a Teleut from southern Siberia, a Bashkir, and a Tatar, belong to a subclade, R-Y20748, whose TMRCA is estimated to be only 1,750 [95% CI 1,150 <-> 2,400] ybp, comparable to the estimated TMRCA of R-L1432. The Bashkir and the Tatar share an even more recent common ancestor in R-Y22195 (TMRCA 800 [95% CI 425 <-> 1,450] ybp). Although this Bashkir individual belongs to the R-Y20750 clade, it should be noted that many of the R-M478 Bashkirs of Myres et al. (2011) have DYS390=19 and DYS389=14-16, and therefore probably belong to the R-L1432 clade instead. On the other hand, the modal R-M478 haplotype among the Balkars of Myres et al. (2011) has DYS390=22 and DYS389=14-19, a combination which is also found in a "kipshak, kumi noghay" individual in the R1b Basal Subclades Project at FTDNA. The HGDP Pakistani Hazara have their own peculiar cluster of R-M478 haplotypes (DYS390=23, DYS389=13-18 or 13-17, DYS385=13-16) that probably belongs to R-Y20750. 13.2% (5/38) of Shors, 11.4% (5/44) of Teleuts, and 3.1% (2/64) of Khakassians from the data set of Malyarchuk et al. (2011) probably belong to R-Y20750.

    ¹ cf. supplementary information for Peter de Barros Damgaard, Nina Marchi, Simon Rasmussen, et al. (2018), "137 ancient human genomes from across the Eurasian steppes":
    Ruined burials from the village of Karaoba (Spartak)

    (Spartak, kurgan 1, burial 4 (DA93), Early Medieval, Unknown, 2 teeth, adult Pavlodar; Spartak, kurgan 1, burial 5 (DA94), Early Medieval, Unknown, 1 tooth, Pavlodar)

    As a result of activities being carried out in the village of Karaoba (Spartak) in Aktogay District at the beginning of the 1990s, an earth kurgan was destroyed, under which several mediaeval burials were found. Bones belonging to adults and adolescents were recovered. How the bones and associated inventory (a single bronze buckle) had originally been positioned is uncertain. The burial ritual, which involved interring several individuals under one kurgan mound, is characteristic of the Early Bronze Age population in the Irtysh area. Thus, the remains appear to be related to this period. Radiocarbon dating from bones of these individual revealed the burial to have taken place between 685 and 963 CE (cal. 2 Sigma). The largest value on the radiocarbon dating calibration curve coincides with the middle of the 8th and the beginning of the 9th century CE, linking the burial to the Turkic period.

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