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Thread: DNA.land. 23andme raw file compared against FT-DNA FF raw file.

  1. #1
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    DNA.land. 23andme raw file compared against FT-DNA FF raw file.

    Comparing the ancestry results of two raw files from the same tester (myself) uploaded to DNA.land.

    Myself.
    Paper trail and family history 100% SE English, mainly East Anglian. See my signature.

    23andMe result before phasing (spec mode):
    100% European broken into
    94% Northwestern Europe
    3% Southern Europe
    3% unassigned European

    Broken down further to:
    32% British & Irish
    27% French & German
    7% Scandinavian
    29% Broadly NW European
    0.5% Iberian
    2.4% Broadly South European

    23andMe result after phasing with one parent (spec mode):
    100% European
    96% Northwestern European
    1.8% Southern European
    2.2% Broadly European

    Broken down further to:
    37% British & Irish
    22% French & German
    1% Scandinavian
    36% Broadly NW European
    1.8% Broadly Southern European

    FT-DNA Family Finder My Origins.
    100% European

    Broken down further to:
    36% British Isles
    32% Southern Europe
    26% Scandinavia
    6% Eastern Europe

    Now I am comparing the two raw files for the same person, uploaded to, and analysed for ancestry, by DNA.land:

    23andMe V4 raw file for myself on DNA.land:

    100% West Eurasian.
    77% North West European
    19% South European (broken into 13% Balkan / 6.1% South/Central European
    2.4% Finnish
    1.3% Ambiguous

    FT-DNA FF raw file for myself on DNA.land:
    100% West Eurasian
    75% North West European
    25% Balkan

    Just for more information:

    My mother's 23andMe raw file on on DNA.land:
    100% West Eurasian
    80% North West European
    10% South European (broken into 7.7% South/Central Europe / 2.4% Balkan)
    6.4% Finnish
    2.3% Sardinian
    1.5% Ambiguous

    Conclusion

    Phasing on 23andme suggested that I inherit (in spec mode) nearly 1% Southern European from each parent. That each of my very East Anglian parents had a Southern European ancestor within the past 300 - 500 years is highly unlikely, considering 1) the paper trail, and 2) local history in this rural area. Therefore I feel that this reflects much older background ancestry for the local SE English population. Ancient DNA calculators also predict that I have higher than average levels of ENF/EEF than other local populations such as the Irish and Scottish, and lower levels of ANE. This appears associated with my Southern European flavour that some tests suggest as a minority percentage. FT-DNA suggested 32% Southern European! Some commentators have suggested that this might indicate significant French admixture to the SE English population, perhaps during the Norman and Medieval periods, carrying a southern signal higher into lowland Britain. Earlier admixture into Lowland Britain from the south, is also possible during late prehistory and the Roman period.

    DNA.land has been noted for a bias to predicting both Balkan, and Finnish ancestry for testers, and my results are no exception. I feel that as with all current autosomal DNA test/analysis for ancestry, that DNA.land has a way to go. As with the other predictors, it is very successful at recognising me as 100% European (although ironically my Y-DNA is Western Asian). It is fair at spotting me as NW European, but NOT as successful as 23andMe. Below that level, once again it falls down - but I feel that this is understandable, as most predictors fail down for anciently admixed populations such as the English. They are far more successful at spotting for example, Irish/Scottish. For the English, we tend to be ripped across different European populations. The Southern European element is a particular surprise - but all of the testers so far have been confused by this background signal. Dienekes has himself, suggested Southern European DNA coming into England with the Normans:

    http://dienekes.blogspot.co.uk/2016/...-ancestry.html

    I'm starting to settle with this hypothesis, although I still have some interest in possible Southern European admixture earlier.

    Finally... The two raw files for one person, have produced slightly different results. The FT-DNA raw file has I believe, more tested (but different?) SNPs than the 23andMe file. It would be interesting to know the differences. DNA.land, using the FT-DNA FF file, does not see Finnish, or South/Central European, but enhances the Balkan.

    Thank you.

  2. The Following 9 Users Say Thank You to A Norfolk L-M20 For This Useful Post:

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  3. #2
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    You make a good AuDNA study with your well-documented family tree & highly regionalized English heritage. The main difference that I've heard of between 23andMe & FTDNA kits is that FTDNA specifically excludes many health-related SNPs. When I first started with this hobby, I would run both 23andMe & FTDNA kits in Gedmatch calculators for kicks to see if I came out Scottish on 1 vs. English or Irish on the other (mixed British diaspora heritage - ). The only time I noted a difference was getting English with 1 kit & Belgian with another. Close enough, at least geographically, I suppose.

    A slight tangent in regard to your post and recent bog entry: I wonder if your blog would be appropriate for the "Affiliates" section of this forum? It looks like there are at present 3-4 blogs by members of this forum. Think of the favor that you would be doing for this forum! Most of the DNA test co. database still seems to be Americans of mostly British descent. Your genes may very well represent the quintessential Englishman.

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  5. #3
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    Thanks for the input AnnieD. I really don't believe that I'm that unusual, I'm sure that despite rumours to the contrary, there are still many, many people in the Irish and British Isles, that have a long term local family history. Not long ago, I was in the library of the Norfolk Family History Society. The volunteer manning the library was an elderly and experienced genealogist, that had traced back to somewhere around 400 years ago or more - yet had not found any ancestor born outside of our single little English county. We need more of us to test. They are here. POBI hit on one problem. More people from urban areas test, but urban areas are hubs of migration and admixture. Outside of them, rural areas see far less mixing for long periods of time. So much to the point, that the national stereotype of my County (Norfolk) is that we are all "inbred" lovers of our siblings. The English are not big customers of DNA testing for ancestry yet. However, those that do, often have a urban family history, and usually have knowledge of Irish, Huguenot, Polish, Jewish, Scottish, German, or other ancestry within their family history. Absolutely nothing wrong with that indeed I feel envious of their rich heritage. My ancestry in comparison is boring. I'm (on record!) though of a very rural and fairly localised ancestry. My ancestors don't appear to have seen a lot of admixture - not more than low levels, since the Medieval. Tests like mine are only valuable as references.

    POBI was also very good for it's sampling. They avoided urban areas, and requested that testers had four grandparents born within a generous 50 miles. I'd certainly have fitted their requirements. They tested 2,039 people with these prerequisites across the UK and Northern Ireland. From what I can see, their Norfolk and East Anglian data set was particularly generous. I can see that at least 160 tests were conducted in Norfolk.

    I really hope that the Living DNA test doesn't let me down.

    For any readers not knowing what I refer to POBI, see:

    https://youtu.be/6ANNHMzmxlI

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  7. #4
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    Watching through that Youtube on POBI again, makes me aware, that the NEA data set is most probably Norfolk/north East Anglia? It's pretty much in the middle of British data sets. Not overtly Danish/Anglo Saxon, etc. It is rich in samples that match France, Belgium, and parts of Germany. Dienekes suggests that this sort of data might suggest Norman admixture. However, here, they seem to prefer an earlier, unknown migration.

    It does remind me of the Daily Mail popular media presentation of this study which said "We're French!".

    The genetics seems to be contradicting history.

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  9. #5
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    Thanks for showing the differences. I haven't uploaded to DNA.Land, so was curious how it may look. My 23andme results also came back as 100% European, mostly (98.4%) Northwestern European. Further broken up into:

    66.9% British and Irish
    9.5% French and German
    3.4% Scandinavian
    18.6% Broadly Northwestern European
    0.4% Broadly Southern European
    1.2% Broadly European

    Like yourself, all of my ancestral paper trail that I have been able to account for is within the British Isles. Mostly the Northeast of England, but also Yorkshire, Cumbria, Scotland, Ireland and my mother's paternal line from Norfolk. On the latter line, they were farmers and agricultural labourers from the Early 1700s before moving up to the Northeast sometime between 1887-1890 to work in the shipyards.

    I'm also intrigued by what the Living DNA results will look like. Hoping there is a higher resolution based on the POBI comparison. I just heard about Living DNA last week and ordered a test yesterday.

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  11. #6
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    My ancestry report on DNA.Land, imported from my 23andme raw data above came back as 100% West Eurasian. Breaks down as:

    89% Northwestern European
    5.5% Balkan
    4.1% Finnish
    1.5% Southern European

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  13. #7
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    Here is my DNA.Land results from importing my 23andMe raw data (came out as 100% East Asian, 85% Central Chinese and 15% Southeast Asian and further breaksdown the Southeast Asian as 13% Southeast Asian and 1.7% Taiwanese):

    East Asian 100%
    Central Chinese 85%
    Southeast Asian 15%
    Southeast Asian 13%
    Taiwanese 1.7%

    Here are the definitions of these groups:

    Central Chinese
    Includes: Han, Miao, Naxi, She, Tujia, Yi and Southern Han in (NChina and 7 other sites) China and Han in (China) Bejing
    Does not include: Mongol, Daur, Lahu and Tu in China; Cambodian in Cambodia; Korean in Korea; Ami and Atayal in Taiwan; Chinese Dai in (China) Xishuangbanna; Kinh in (Vietnam) Ho Chi Minh City and Bengali in Bangladesh

    Southeast Asian
    Includes: Dai and Lahu in China; Chinese Dai in (China) Xishuangbanna and Kinh in (Vietnam) Ho Chi Minh City
    Does not include: Cambodian in Cambodia; Miao, Naxi, Yi and Southern Han in China; Bengali in Bangladesh and Indian Telugu from Southern India (expat in the UK)

    Taiwanese
    Includes: Ami and Atayal in Taiwan
    Does not include: She and Southern Han in China; Korean in Korea and Japanese in (Japan) Tokyo


    23andMe Results:

    East Asian & Native American
    99.8%

    East Asian-97.6%
    Chinese-97.6%
    Broadly East Asian- < 0.1%
    Southeast Asian-2.0%
    Broadly East Asian & Native American-0.1%
    South Asian-0.1%
    Broadly South Asian-0.1%
    Last edited by tirosen; 11-29-2016 at 07:04 PM.

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  15. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by deadly77 View Post
    My ancestry report on DNA.Land, imported from my 23andme raw data above came back as 100% West Eurasian. Breaks down as:

    89% Northwestern European
    5.5% Balkan
    4.1% Finnish
    1.5% Southern European
    DNA.land really likes to give us Balkan and Finnish.

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  17. #9
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    No identifiable Balkan or Finnish. They updated to S/C. Eur from Italian, since my first report. Very ambiguous, little value.

    West Eurasian 100% Northwest European 95%
    South/Central European 2.7%
    Ambiguous 2.2%

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