Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Turkmen haplogroup Q = genetic drift?

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,060
    Sex
    Location
    Last of the Mohicans
    Ethnicity
    Gafasigirig
    Nationality
    Icecold
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-Y16849
    mtDNA (M)
    H14a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z2103
    mtDNA (P)
    HV-T16311C!

    Turkey Afsharid Dynasty

    Turkmen haplogroup Q = genetic drift?

    So there is a new russian paper released where the Turkmen from Karakalpakstan have 74% Q-M25. http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post198965
    Cristofaro et al found 31.1% Q-M25 in Afghanistan Turkmen, and Grugni et al found 42.6% in Iranian Turkmen.
    (I should also note that Balaresque et al (2015) has found no Q in Turkmen also from Karakalpakstan)
    So now we have three different papers, with a majority of a single hg (Q-m25), spread over different regions, can this be the result of genetic drift?
    Of all the countries, this is possibly the most beautiful. All that is beautiful and can be rarely seen in
    other countries can be seen everywhere here... Here live the people who wear the cleanest clothes and prepare the
    most flavorful dishes... Of all of Godís servants, the local people are the most compassionate and merciful...

    Ibn Battuta about Asia Minor 1333CE

  2. The Following 7 Users Say Thank You to Afshar For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (11-24-2016),  Crimean (11-24-2016),  Megalophias (11-24-2016),  raspberry (12-19-2016),  rms2 (11-24-2016),  Sangarius (11-24-2016),  TŠltos (11-25-2016)

  3. #2
    Registered Users
    Posts
    406
    Sex
    Location
    Erebuni
    Ethnicity
    Armenian Urartian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1

    Armenia
    I wouldn't call it drift. It is most probably a founder effect created by a prominent clan.

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Arame For This Useful Post:

     Afshar (11-24-2016),  Agamemnon (11-24-2016),  Pribislav (11-24-2016),  TŠltos (11-25-2016)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,060
    Sex
    Location
    Last of the Mohicans
    Ethnicity
    Gafasigirig
    Nationality
    Icecold
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-Y16849
    mtDNA (M)
    H14a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z2103
    mtDNA (P)
    HV-T16311C!

    Turkey Afsharid Dynasty
    Yes that came to my mind, except that its impossible all belong to the same tribe. Geographically its not a match.
    Of all the countries, this is possibly the most beautiful. All that is beautiful and can be rarely seen in
    other countries can be seen everywhere here... Here live the people who wear the cleanest clothes and prepare the
    most flavorful dishes... Of all of Godís servants, the local people are the most compassionate and merciful...

    Ibn Battuta about Asia Minor 1333CE

  6. #4
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,743
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R2a*-M124 (L295-)
    mtDNA (M)
    D4j5*

    It certainly is genetic drift, and it's also a founder effect.

    Founder effects are a subset of genetic drift, as are bottlenecks. The main difference between founder effects and bottlenecks are circumstantial (former is a natural/voluntary outgrowth of a daughter population from a parent, latter is a reduction in allelic diversity due to environmental factors, such as natural disasters, war, infection etc.). Further reading with diagrams here.

    From memory, Y-DNA Q is also the most common East Eurasian Y-haplogroup among Azeris (both Republic and Iranian) as well. We're very likely looking at one of the Oghuz signals.

    Would be immensely useful to obtain some of these samples for further testing.

  7. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to DMXX For This Useful Post:

     Afshar (11-24-2016),  Agamemnon (11-24-2016),  Amerijoe (11-24-2016),  Arame (11-25-2016),  Awale (11-24-2016),  Gravetto-Danubian (11-24-2016),  Megalophias (11-24-2016),  rms2 (11-24-2016),  Sangarius (11-24-2016),  TŠltos (11-25-2016)

  8. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,060
    Sex
    Location
    Last of the Mohicans
    Ethnicity
    Gafasigirig
    Nationality
    Icecold
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-Y16849
    mtDNA (M)
    H14a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z2103
    mtDNA (P)
    HV-T16311C!

    Turkey Afsharid Dynasty
    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    I wouldn't call it drift. It is most probably a founder effect created by a prominent clan.
    You are probably right. The paper estimates the TRMCA as around 1090 which coincides with the appearance of Oghuz tribes in the region. The ethnogenesis of different tribes we know started probably a while later, and so the Q could be from a prominent clan who were there in the beginning.

    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    It certainly is genetic drift, and it's also a founder effect.

    Founder effects are a subset of genetic drift, as are bottlenecks. The main difference between founder effects and bottlenecks are circumstantial (former is a natural/voluntary outgrowth of a daughter population from a parent, latter is a reduction in allelic diversity due to environmental factors, such as natural disasters, war, infection etc.). Further reading with diagrams here.

    From memory, Y-DNA Q is also the most common East Eurasian Y-haplogroup among Azeris (both Republic and Iranian) as well. We're very likely looking at one of the Oghuz signals.

    Would be immensely useful to obtain some of these samples for further testing.
    Need to read me in to these things again .
    Of all the countries, this is possibly the most beautiful. All that is beautiful and can be rarely seen in
    other countries can be seen everywhere here... Here live the people who wear the cleanest clothes and prepare the
    most flavorful dishes... Of all of Godís servants, the local people are the most compassionate and merciful...

    Ibn Battuta about Asia Minor 1333CE

  9. #6
    Registered Users
    Posts
    975
    Sex
    Location
    EU
    Ethnicity
    Finnish
    Y-DNA (P)
    Father N1c
    mtDNA (M)
    I5a

    Q-M25 has been detected in BA and IA Altai in Karasuk culture (together with R1a1-Z2124) and during the Iron Age (together with J2a2 and R1a1-Z93 (R1a1-Z2123?) (these haplotypes are based on Genetiker's work). Today, R1a1-Z2123 is typical for such Turkic speakers as Bashkirs, Chuvash, Tatars, Karachay-Balkar, Tajiks and Azers. Do you know if there is R1a1-Z2123 or R1a1-Z2124 also in Turkmens?

    In any case, the Turkic ethno genesis could have a connection with BA and IA Altai.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Kristiina For This Useful Post:

     Шад (11-25-2016),  Kanenas (11-25-2016)

  11. #7
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,060
    Sex
    Location
    Last of the Mohicans
    Ethnicity
    Gafasigirig
    Nationality
    Icecold
    Y-DNA (P)
    Q-Y16849
    mtDNA (M)
    H14a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z2103
    mtDNA (P)
    HV-T16311C!

    Turkey Afsharid Dynasty
    Quote Originally Posted by Kristiina View Post
    Q-M25 has been detected in BA and IA Altai in Karasuk culture (together with R1a1-Z2124) and during the Iron Age (together with J2a2 and R1a1-Z93 (R1a1-Z2123?) (these haplotypes are based on Genetiker's work). Today, R1a1-Z2123 is typical for such Turkic speakers as Bashkirs, Chuvash, Tatars, Karachay-Balkar, Tajiks and Azers. Do you know if there is R1a1-Z2123 or R1a1-Z2124 also in Turkmens?

    In any case, the Turkic ethno genesis could have a connection with BA and IA Altai.
    Yes the Karasuk connection is definitely there.
    The Balaresque paper (http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v...g2014285a.html) has an abundance of R1a, but did not test for specific snps.
    Of all the countries, this is possibly the most beautiful. All that is beautiful and can be rarely seen in
    other countries can be seen everywhere here... Here live the people who wear the cleanest clothes and prepare the
    most flavorful dishes... Of all of Godís servants, the local people are the most compassionate and merciful...

    Ibn Battuta about Asia Minor 1333CE

  12. #8
    Registered Users
    Posts
    406
    Sex
    Location
    Erebuni
    Ethnicity
    Armenian Urartian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1

    Armenia
    Would be immensely useful to obtain some of these samples for further testing.
    Raw data probably will be available after the publication in peer reviewed journal.
    One of authors suggested.

  13. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Arame For This Useful Post:

     Шад (11-25-2016),  TŠltos (11-25-2016)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-29-2019, 11:39 PM
  2. Welsh specific genetic drift
    By avalon in forum Western
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: 11-13-2016, 01:32 PM
  3. Genetic drift simulators
    By Tomenable in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-03-2016, 11:52 PM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 06-15-2015, 07:05 AM
  5. Genetic Drift Sharing: Bell Beaker & WHG
    By R.Rocca in forum R1b General
    Replies: 81
    Last Post: 05-30-2015, 08:54 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •