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Thread: Gedmatch results of a Sephardic Jew from Izmir, Turkey

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    Gedmatch results of a Sephardic Jew from Izmir, Turkey

    When they were expelled from Spain many of the Sephardic Jews fled to the then Ottoman Empire, settling mainly in places like Salonika (now Greece) and Izmir (now Turkey), where they comprised a substantial % of the population. The mostly Samaritan results show they carry Ancient Israelite ancestry IMO and the Iberian component the admixture they got after living in the Iberian peninsula for over a thousand perhaps over 2 thousand years. Still, they turn out mostly Samaritan (a proxy for Ancient Israelite). The 500 years old period of settlement in Greece and Turkey does not seem to show up.

    Eurogenes k13:
    Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 34.57
    2 West_Med 21.47
    3 North_Atlantic 15.74
    4 West_Asian 12.52
    5 Red_Sea 9.39
    6 Baltic 2.3
    7 Northeast_African 1.76
    8 East_Asian 1.5
    9 Siberian 0.41
    10 South_Asian 0.33

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Sephardic_Jewish 3.08
    2 Italian_Jewish 4.49
    3 Algerian_Jewish 5.23
    4 South_Italian 6.6
    5 Tunisian_Jewish 6.84
    6 Libyan_Jewish 7.64
    7 East_Sicilian 8.05
    8 Ashkenazi 8.5
    9 West_Sicilian 9.63
    10 Central_Greek 10.06
    11 Italian_Abruzzo 11.34
    12 Cyprian 12.7
    13 Lebanese_Muslim 15.86
    14 Greek_Thessaly 16.09
    15 Tuscan 16.14
    16 Syrian 16.48
    17 Samaritan 17.47
    18 Palestinian 18.2
    19 Jordanian 18.5
    20 Lebanese_Christian 19.1

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 66.5% Samaritan + 33.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.83
    2 63.2% Samaritan + 36.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 1.92
    3 72.6% Samaritan + 27.4% French_Basque @ 1.93
    4 64.9% Samaritan + 35.1% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.2
    5 63.5% Samaritan + 36.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.29
    6 94.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 5.9% Sardinian @ 2.31
    7 64.3% Samaritan + 35.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.4
    8 64.5% Lebanese_Christian + 35.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.43
    9 95.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.8% Southwest_French @ 2.49
    10 94.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 5.5% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.5
    11 95.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.9% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.51
    12 96.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 3.8% French_Basque @ 2.51
    13 94.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 5.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.51
    14 94.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 5.7% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.52
    15 94.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 5.6% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.52
    16 84% Sephardic_Jewish + 16% West_Sicilian @ 2.52
    17 61.2% Lebanese_Christian + 38.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.54
    18 92.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.3% North_Italian @ 2.54
    19 94.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 5.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.55
    20 95.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 4.8% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.56

    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 34.57
    2 West_Med 21.47
    3 North_Atlantic 15.74
    4 West_Asian 12.52
    5 Red_Sea 9.39
    6 Baltic 2.30
    7 Northeast_African 1.76
    8 East_Asian 1.50


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.366179
    2 Italian_Jewish @ 5.000558
    3 Algerian_Jewish @ 5.686387
    4 South_Italian @ 7.219330
    5 Tunisian_Jewish @ 7.628167
    6 Libyan_Jewish @ 8.272821
    7 East_Sicilian @ 9.046181
    8 Ashkenazi @ 9.478448
    9 West_Sicilian @ 10.867848
    10 Central_Greek @ 11.270769
    11 Italian_Abruzzo @ 12.849660
    12 Cyprian @ 14.628642
    13 Lebanese_Muslim @ 18.157049
    14 Greek_Thessaly @ 18.177740
    15 Tuscan @ 18.436298
    16 Syrian @ 18.689610
    17 Samaritan @ 20.082869
    18 Tunisian @ 20.128065
    19 Palestinian @ 20.451399
    20 Jordanian @ 20.591686

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% South_Italian +50% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.352956


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Samaritan +25% Sephardic_Jewish +25% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.789533


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Italian_Jewish + Samaritan + Samaritan + Spanish_Aragon @ 1.787025
    2 Samaritan + Samaritan + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 1.789533
    3 Cyprian + Libyan_Jewish + Samaritan + Spanish_Aragon @ 1.856848
    4 Cyprian + Samaritan + Spanish_Aragon + Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.869752
    5 French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Libyan_Jewish @ 1.917474
    6 French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.928035
    7 Algerian_Jewish + Samaritan + Samaritan + Spanish_Aragon @ 1.958983
    8 French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Libyan_Jewish + Samaritan @ 2.005744
    9 French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Lebanese_Christian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.032459
    10 Algerian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.057551
    11 Lebanese_Christian + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.086274
    12 Italian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.093319
    13 Cyprian + Lebanese_Christian + Libyan_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.123231
    14 Lebanese_Christian + Libyan_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.166173
    15 Italian_Jewish + Samaritan + Samaritan + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.169255
    16 Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.181053
    17 Lebanese_Christian + Libyan_Jewish + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.202664
    18 Samaritan + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.207517
    19 Italian_Jewish + Samaritan + Samaritan + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.230176
    20 Cyprian + Samaritan + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.231585

    Done.
    Eurogenes v2k15:

    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 31.21
    2 West_Med 17.59
    3 Atlantic 16.44
    4 West_Asian 13.11
    5 Red_Sea 10.32
    6 North_Sea 4.24
    7 Baltic 3.17
    8 Northeast_African 2.09
    9 Southeast_Asian 1.41
    10 Siberian 0.24
    11 South_Asian 0.2

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Sephardic_Jewish 4.07
    2 Italian_Jewish 5.86
    3 Algerian_Jewish 6.12
    4 South_Italian 7.48
    5 Tunisian_Jewish 7.63
    6 East_Sicilian 8.33
    7 West_Sicilian 8.85
    8 Central_Greek 10.08
    9 Ashkenazi 10.22
    10 Italian_Abruzzo 10.67
    11 Libyan_Jewish 12.08
    12 Cyprian 12.96
    13 Greek 14.4
    14 Tuscan 14.83
    15 Lebanese_Muslim 16.13
    16 Greek_Thessaly 16.15
    17 Syrian 16.45
    18 Samaritan 17.88
    19 Jordanian 18.63
    20 Palestinian 19.06

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 69% Samaritan + 31% French_Basque @ 2.77
    2 93.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.5% French_Basque @ 3.03
    3 91.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 8.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.19
    4 92.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 3.21
    5 92% Sephardic_Jewish + 8% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.23
    6 93% Sephardic_Jewish + 7% Southwest_French @ 3.25
    7 93% Sephardic_Jewish + 7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.31
    8 92.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.31
    9 93.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.5% Sardinian @ 3.36
    10 92.5% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.36
    11 92.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.41
    12 92.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.7% Spanish_Extremadura @ 3.41
    13 93.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.5
    14 93% Sephardic_Jewish + 7% Portuguese @ 3.51
    15 91% Sephardic_Jewish + 9% North_Italian @ 3.52
    16 93.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.4% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.57
    17 88.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 11.8% Tuscan @ 3.58
    18 82.3% Sephardic_Jewish + 17.7% West_Sicilian @ 3.68
    19 59.9% Samaritan + 40.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 3.73
    20 85.5% Tunisian_Jewish + 14.5% French_Basque @ 3.75

    Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 4-Ancestors Oracle


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 31.21
    2 West_Med 17.59
    3 Atlantic 16.44
    4 West_Asian 13.11
    5 Red_Sea 10.32
    6 North_Sea 4.24
    7 Baltic 3.17
    8 Northeast_African 2.09
    9 Southeast_Asian 1.41


    Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
    15 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.612352
    2 Italian_Jewish @ 6.723702
    3 Algerian_Jewish @ 6.814649
    4 South_Italian @ 8.256424
    5 Tunisian_Jewish @ 8.662251
    6 East_Sicilian @ 9.535775
    7 West_Sicilian @ 10.028160
    8 Central_Greek @ 11.386546
    9 Ashkenazi @ 11.853524
    10 Italian_Abruzzo @ 12.160946
    11 Libyan_Jewish @ 13.788123
    12 Cyprian @ 15.117860
    13 Greek @ 16.309975
    14 Tuscan @ 17.139713
    15 Greek_Thessaly @ 18.544100
    16 Lebanese_Muslim @ 18.681971
    17 Syrian @ 18.904753
    18 Tunisian @ 19.842630
    19 Samaritan @ 20.927044
    20 Jordanian @ 21.036812

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Sephardic_Jewish +50% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.612352


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cyprian +25% French_Basque +25% Palestinian @ 3.839176


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 French_Basque + Samaritan + Samaritan + Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.093937
    2 French_Basque + Samaritan + Samaritan + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.137400
    3 Cyprian + French_Basque + Samaritan + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.235788
    4 French_Basque + Samaritan + Syrian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.288093
    5 French_Basque + Lebanese_Muslim + Samaritan + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.400225
    6 Bedouin + Cyprian + Cyprian + French_Basque @ 3.465992
    7 French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.468658
    8 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Samaritan + Samaritan @ 3.482921
    9 French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.538006
    10 French_Basque + Italian_Jewish + Samaritan + Samaritan @ 3.665879
    11 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Samaritan @ 3.670342
    12 Cyprian + French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.670634
    13 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Samaritan + Syrian @ 3.674825
    14 Samaritan + Sephardic_Jewish + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.690281
    15 French_Basque + Lebanese_Christian + Syrian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.693615
    16 French_Basque + Samaritan + Sephardic_Jewish + Syrian @ 3.706123
    17 Cyprian + French_Basque + Palestinian + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.763505
    18 Cyprian + Spanish_Andalucia + Tunisian_Jewish + Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.795096
    19 French_Basque + Samaritan + Samaritan + South_Italian @ 3.801955
    20 Algerian_Jewish + French_Basque + Lebanese_Muslim + Samaritan @ 3.815866

    Done.

    Elapsed time 0.8746 seconds.
    Dodecad k12b:
    Dodecad K12b Oracle results:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 33.46
    2 Atlantic_Med 26.1
    3 Southwest_Asian 17.15
    4 Northwest_African 7.16
    5 North_European 7.04
    6 Gedrosia 6.91
    7 East_African 0.71
    8 Southeast_Asian 0.7
    9 South_Asian 0.58
    10 East_Asian 0.19

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 4.02
    2 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 4.58
    3 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 8.89
    4 Sicilian (Dodecad) 8.89
    5 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 9.14
    6 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 9.86
    7 C_Italian (Dodecad) 15.56
    8 Greek (Dodecad) 15.95
    9 Cypriots (Behar) 15.97
    10 Lebanese (Behar) 17.17
    11 O_Italian (Dodecad) 19.05
    12 Tuscan (HGDP) 19.46
    13 Syrians (Behar) 19.48
    14 Jordanians (Behar) 19.78
    15 TSI30 (Metspalu) 20.26
    16 Turkish (Dodecad) 20.58
    17 Druze (HGDP) 21.14
    18 Palestinian (HGDP) 21.16
    19 Turks (Behar) 22.48
    20 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 24.47

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 60.5% Druze (HGDP) + 39.5% Canarias (1000Genomes) @ 2.41
    2 90.7% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 9.3% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.77
    3 95.4% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4.6% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.8
    4 91.2% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 8.8% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.8
    5 95.6% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.86
    6 95.2% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4.8% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.87
    7 95.6% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4.4% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.88
    8 95.4% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4.6% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.89
    9 96% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 2.9
    10 93.6% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 6.4% Tajiks (Yunusbayev) @ 2.9
    11 95.7% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4.3% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.91
    12 91.2% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 8.8% Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.91
    13 96.3% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 3.7% Lithuanians (Behar) @ 2.91
    14 96.3% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 3.7% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.94
    15 96.3% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 3.7% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.94
    16 94.1% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 5.9% Hungarians (Behar) @ 2.94
    17 95.5% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4.5% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.95
    18 85.2% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 14.8% Greek (Dodecad) @ 2.96
    19 93.6% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 6.4% Lezgins (Behar) @ 2.97
    20 95.5% Morocco_Jews (Behar) + 4.5% Chuvashs (Behar) @ 2.97

    Dodecad K12b 4-Ancestors Oracle

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasus 33.46
    2 Atlantic_Med 26.10
    3 Southwest_Asian 17.15
    4 Northwest_African 7.16
    5 North_European 7.04
    6 Gedrosia 6.91


    Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
    12 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Morocco_Jews @ 4.286867
    2 Sephardic_Jews @ 5.104330
    3 Sicilian @ 9.587204
    4 S_Italian_Sicilian @ 9.599391
    5 Ashkenazi @ 9.994288
    6 Ashkenazy_Jews @ 10.777570
    7 C_Italian @ 16.735563
    8 Greek @ 17.303020
    9 Cypriots @ 17.847916
    10 Lebanese @ 18.517488
    11 O_Italian @ 20.597300
    12 Syrians @ 20.812366
    13 Tuscan @ 20.945904
    14 Jordanians @ 20.991560
    15 TSI30 @ 21.840017
    16 Turkish @ 22.347904
    17 Palestinian @ 22.429358
    18 Druze @ 23.231951
    19 Turks @ 24.359526
    20 Egyptans @ 26.408472

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Morocco_Jews +50% Sephardic_Jews @ 3.742379


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Morocco_Jews +25% Syrians +25% TSI30 @ 2.328022


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Canarias + Cypriots + Morocco_Jews + Syrians @ 1.774710
    2 Jordanians + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + TSI30 @ 1.882611
    3 Canarias + Cypriots + Jordanians + Morocco_Jews @ 1.973532
    4 Druze + Lebanese + Morocco_Jews + Murcia @ 2.014790
    5 Castilla_Y_Leon + Druze + Lebanese + Morocco_Jews @ 2.016623
    6 Jordanians + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + Tuscan @ 2.108225
    7 Cypriots + Jordanians + Morocco_Jews + Portuguese @ 2.118605
    8 Canarias + Cypriots + Jordanians + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.130189
    9 Canarias + Cypriots + Lebanese + Morocco_Jews @ 2.202925
    10 Lebanese + Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + TSI30 @ 2.207946
    11 Druze + Lebanese + Morocco_Jews + Portuguese @ 2.222307
    12 Canarias + Cypriots + Morocco_Jews + Palestinian @ 2.229309
    13 Druze + Lebanese + Morocco_Jews + Spanish @ 2.245238
    14 Canarias + Druze + Lebanese + Morocco_Jews @ 2.257818
    15 Canarias + Cypriots + Palestinian + Sephardic_Jews @ 2.275644
    16 Cypriots + Morocco_Jews + Palestinian + Portuguese @ 2.288154
    17 Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + Syrians + TSI30 @ 2.328022
    18 Castilla_Y_Leon + Druze + Jordanians + Morocco_Jews @ 2.357368
    19 Morocco_Jews + Morocco_Jews + Palestinian + TSI30 @ 2.362739
    20 Cypriots + Jordanians + Morocco_Jews + Murcia @ 2.390110

    Done.

    Elapsed time 0.4031 seconds.
    Last edited by Piquerobi; 11-28-2016 at 12:49 PM.

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  3. #2
    The first one (Atzmon 2010 - PPV, discussed by me here) showed us, even if hidden in the supplementary material only, that the main Jewish cluster was extremely close to their "Turks and Cypriots" sample, specially to some of them (Cypriots apparently):




    "This central or pivotal group of Jews, marked as GRK+TUR and SYR, are the so-called Sephardi, which, in spite of their name (Sepharad means Spain) do not necessarily originate in the Iberian peninsula but rather share historically a pan-Mediterranean type of ritual, distinct from that of Ashkenazim and other Jewish populations (see also this article if you wish to understand better the complexity of Jewish ethnic divisions).

    Just a few days later we got Behar 2010 (also PPV, discussed here), which did not deepen enough in the component analysis, in my understanding, but determined at least that Western Jews (Sephardi, Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jews) were of West Asian origin apparently.

    However how exactly they related with West Asians was mostly unresolved (excepting that Palestinians have a lot of genetic distinctiveness and this was not shared with modern Jews nor nearly any other population at any meaningful level).

    So, as I began toying around with ADMIXTURE, using the very basic but functional instructions by Razib, one of the ideas I had to explore were Western Jews (other Jewish communities seem to be derived from their host populations but Western Jews appeared as West Asian in these studies)."




    The labels of the components in the last two images (bottom and right respectively) are a mere conceptual reference.

    Kebaran (source)
    Since K=2 there is an obvious distinction between Palestinians and the rest. This is coincident with what we find in Behar 2010 for example and what I have found in previous analysis: that Palestinians show a marked distinctiveness even in West Asia. My hypothesis is that they retain best a distinctiveness that may be as old as the Kebaran culture or even older. I understand that this means that, very possibly, Palestinians are the true descendants of historical Jews, Canaanites, etc.


    Early PPNB (source)
    However this analysis was not designed to discern Palestinian affinities but those of Jews, so I won't discuss this farther. Just to say that if the Palestinian pole is akin to Kebaran-Natufian-PPNA, then the other main detected cluster, shared abundantly by everyone in the region, could well be akin to PPNB.

    In any case, the result is that, no matter how deep you go, Sephardi Jews are not clearly distinct from other West Asians, specially not from Cypriots and most often than not also not distinct from Turks. The main difference is certain very weak and slippery relation with Palestinian and other Levantines.

    Particularly, component K5 (pop4 in the Fst table, blue in the bar graph), which I labeled as Palestine1, stroke as quite interesting. This component is most common among Palestinians (15% at K=6) but second most common among Sephardi Jews (5%), being smaller among all other populations analyzed. It is possible, I speculate, that this component is a remnant of a genetic link between the Palestinian population, long ago of Jewish religion and identity most likely, and the Diaspora Jews, most of whose ancestry seems to have other origins.

    It would be, in this regard, most interesting to analyze genuine Palestinian Jews, descendants of those c. 10% Palestinians of Jewish religion who existed before the Zionist colonial project began, sadly even this notion of Palestinian Jewish has vanished or been erased, even if it was once common enough.

    Regardless, in almost everything else, Sephardi Jews are identical to Cypriots and Turks, ?? what suggests that my idea of Western Jews having originated not in Palestine but in the Hellenistic Diaspora, which was largely product not of emigration but of proselytism (and in this context early Christianity was just a Jewish sect of messianic character).

    It remains to see how Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jews fit in this description. But while I had to renounce to analyze them, all the previous data strongly suggests that they are not too distinct from Sephardi Jews and should share at least partly that same origin, followed by intense bottlenecks.

    Edit:
    source

    http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot...evant-and.html

    It'd be more more interesting if they used Christian Palestinian or Samaritian samples but it's possible that Jews are more Hellenistic East Mediterranean than Levantine-Red Sea like population.
    Last edited by Bonacci; 11-28-2016 at 06:39 PM.

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  5. #3
    Banned
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    karius the black hair
    Nationality
    east med

    agree mainly west asian in origin
    but they have southern european admixture like the aschenazi
    they score 15% atlantic in eurogenes k13 a greek jew before and now turkish jew
    that piquerobi posted ....
    i believe the the 4 oracle dont lie
    when spanish aragon appear https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aragon
    regards
    Adam

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  7. #4
    Gold Class Member
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    J1-YSC234 (Z18271+)
    mtDNA
    J1c5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    The fits should not be taken literally, I very much doubt Turkish and other Sephardic Jews are 2/3 Samaritan + 1/3 Iberian, that actually contradicts what we know about the Western Jewish cluster.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bonacci View Post
    The first one (Atzmon 2010 - PPV, discussed by me here) showed us, even if hidden in the supplementary material only, that the main Jewish cluster was extremely close to their "Turks and Cypriots" sample, specially to some of them (Cypriots apparently):




    "This central or pivotal group of Jews, marked as GRK+TUR and SYR, are the so-called Sephardi, which, in spite of their name (Sepharad means Spain) do not necessarily originate in the Iberian peninsula but rather share historically a pan-Mediterranean type of ritual, distinct from that of Ashkenazim and other Jewish populations (see also this article if you wish to understand better the complexity of Jewish ethnic divisions).

    Just a few days later we got Behar 2010 (also PPV, discussed here), which did not deepen enough in the component analysis, in my understanding, but determined at least that Western Jews (Sephardi, Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jews) were of West Asian origin apparently.

    However how exactly they related with West Asians was mostly unresolved (excepting that Palestinians have a lot of genetic distinctiveness and this was not shared with modern Jews nor nearly any other population at any meaningful level).

    So, as I began toying around with ADMIXTURE, using the very basic but functional instructions by Razib, one of the ideas I had to explore were Western Jews (other Jewish communities seem to be derived from their host populations but Western Jews appeared as West Asian in these studies)."




    The labels of the components in the last two images (bottom and right respectively) are a mere conceptual reference.

    Kebaran (source)
    Since K=2 there is an obvious distinction between Palestinians and the rest. This is coincident with what we find in Behar 2010 for example and what I have found in previous analysis: that Palestinians show a marked distinctiveness even in West Asia. My hypothesis is that they retain best a distinctiveness that may be as old as the Kebaran culture or even older. I understand that this means that, very possibly, Palestinians are the true descendants of historical Jews, Canaanites, etc.


    Early PPNB (source)
    However this analysis was not designed to discern Palestinian affinities but those of Jews, so I won't discuss this farther. Just to say that if the Palestinian pole is akin to Kebaran-Natufian-PPNA, then the other main detected cluster, shared abundantly by everyone in the region, could well be akin to PPNB.

    In any case, the result is that, no matter how deep you go, Sephardi Jews are not clearly distinct from other West Asians, specially not from Cypriots and most often than not also not distinct from Turks. The main difference is certain very weak and slippery relation with Palestinian and other Levantines.

    Particularly, component K5 (pop4 in the Fst table, blue in the bar graph), which I labeled as Palestine1, stroke as quite interesting. This component is most common among Palestinians (15% at K=6) but second most common among Sephardi Jews (5%), being smaller among all other populations analyzed. It is possible, I speculate, that this component is a remnant of a genetic link between the Palestinian population, long ago of Jewish religion and identity most likely, and the Diaspora Jews, most of whose ancestry seems to have other origins.

    It would be, in this regard, most interesting to analyze genuine Palestinian Jews, descendants of those c. 10% Palestinians of Jewish religion who existed before the Zionist colonial project began, sadly even this notion of Palestinian Jewish has vanished or been erased, even if it was once common enough.

    Regardless, in almost everything else, Sephardi Jews are identical to Cypriots and Turks, ?? what suggests that my idea of Western Jews having originated not in Palestine but in the Hellenistic Diaspora, which was largely product not of emigration but of proselytism (and in this context early Christianity was just a Jewish sect of messianic character).

    It remains to see how Ashkenazi and Moroccan Jews fit in this description. But while I had to renounce to analyze them, all the previous data strongly suggests that they are not too distinct from Sephardi Jews and should share at least partly that same origin, followed by intense bottlenecks.

    Edit:
    source

    http://forwhattheywereweare.blogspot...evant-and.html

    It'd be more more interesting if they used Christian Palestinian or Samaritian samples but it's possible that Jews are more Hellenistic East Mediterranean than Levantine-Red Sea like population.
    Maju's theories make little to no sense, we're talking about a clown who spends his time babbling about "Zionist discourse/entity/hegemony/genocide/etc" whenever this topic comes up, so his claim that Jews are just a bunch of converts from Cyprus, Anatolia or "from other areas" is a politically-motivated one which has nothing to do with the data. Heck this cretin still claims R1b is of "Paleoeuropean" (understand "Paleolithic Basque") origin despite all the evidence, the guy is a sore loser.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 11-28-2016 at 07:38 PM.
    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  9. #5
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    What about K23b results?

  10. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnamania View Post
    What about K23b results?
    K23b:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 34.07
    2 European_Early_Farmers 21.95
    3 Near_East 16.02
    4 North_African 11.13
    5 European_Hunters_Gatherers 7.39
    6 South_Central_Asian 4.89
    7 South_East_Asian 1.65
    8 East_African 0.9
    9 Ancestral_Altaic 0.86
    10 African_Pygmy 0.36
    11 Tungus-Altaic 0.32
    12 Arctic 0.26
    13 South_Indian 0.14
    14 Amerindian 0.05
    15 Archaic_Human 0.01

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Moroccan_Jew ( ) 3.2
    2 Libyan_Jew ( ) 5.15
    3 Sephardic_Jew ( ) 5.69
    4 Turk_Jew ( ) 5.96
    5 Maltese ( ) 6.68
    6 Sicilian_Agrigento ( ) 7.2
    7 Italian_Jew ( ) 7.22
    8 Tunisian_Jew ( ) 7.25
    9 Sicilian_West ( ) 7.55
    10 French_Jew ( ) 7.94
    11 Sicilian_Trapani ( ) 8.21
    12 Ashkenazi_Jew ( ) 8.24
    13 Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) 9.53
    14 Sicilian_East ( ) 9.72
    15 Ashkenazi ( ) 11.66
    16 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 12.67
    17 Greek_Northwest ( ) 13.15
    18 Syrian_Jew ( ) 13.19
    19 Italian_Abruzzo ( ) 13.46
    20 Romanian_Jew ( ) 13.54

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 97.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.2% Aonaga ( ) @ 2.34
    2 97.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.2% Nysha ( ) @ 2.35
    3 97.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.2% Naga ( ) @ 2.35
    4 97.7% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.3% Tibetian_TTR ( ) @ 2.37
    5 97.7% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.3% Tibetian_Madou ( ) @ 2.37
    6 97.7% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.3% Yi ( ) @ 2.37
    7 97.7% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.3% Naxi ( ) @ 2.37
    8 60% Lebanese_Christian ( ) + 40% Spanish_Canarias_IBS ( ) @ 2.38
    9 97.6% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.4% Tu ( ) @ 2.41
    10 97.5% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.5% BedouinB ( ) @ 2.43
    11 97.6% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.4% Han_North ( ) @ 2.43
    12 97.7% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.3% Tujia ( ) @ 2.47
    13 97.6% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.4% Paluang ( ) @ 2.48
    14 97.7% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.3% Jinuo ( ) @ 2.48
    15 97.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.2% Miao ( ) @ 2.48
    16 97.9% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.1% Lahu ( ) @ 2.49
    17 97.6% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.4% Han-Mandarin ( ) @ 2.5
    18 97.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.2% She ( ) @ 2.51
    19 97.8% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.2% Han ( ) @ 2.51
    20 97.7% Moroccan_Jew ( ) + 2.3% Wa ( ) @ 2.51

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  12. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Piquerobi View Post
    When they were expelled from Spain many of the Sephardic Jews fled to the then Ottoman Empire, settling mainly in places like Salonika (now Greece) and Izmir (now Turkey), where they comprised a substantial % of the population. The mostly Samaritan results show they carry Ancient Israelite ancestry IMO and the Iberian component the admixture they got after living in the Iberian peninsula for over a thousand perhaps over 2 thousand years. Still, they turn out mostly Samaritan (a proxy for Ancient Israelite). The 500 years old period of settlement in Greece and Turkey does not seem to show up.

    I am also Sefardi from Istanbul but in the sefardi samples of me, my parents and the ones i could find in gedmatch, i never get an oracle with Samaritans. I also don't agree with the interpretation of Sefardic Jewry. In fact, the Sefarads in the Balkans are a mixture of Iberian jews, Italian jews, local Romaniote jews and Ashkenazim from Hungary etc. This is clearly visible in the surnames and names of synagogues. The iberian jews are also a mixture of local jews and ones coming from Magreb with the Arabs. How is your gedmatch matches?

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    Quote Originally Posted by eolien View Post
    How is your gedmatch matches?
    Those are not my results. I was looking at the results of a Brazilian or of some Latin American when I stumbled upon that kit.

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  16. #9
    Not to rehash this this thread from 2016, but I found it when looking up Sephardic results. My Eurogenes k13 results are very similar to the ones posted here..

    Screen Shot 2019-04-27 at 3.39.44 PM.pngScreen Shot 2019-04-27 at 3.51.19 PM.png
    Last edited by curiousDNAguy12; 04-27-2019 at 07:51 PM.

  17. #10
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    Oop North
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    Mostly Irish/English
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    H1a3a1

    England North of England Ireland Scotland Wales Romani Star of David
    This is the K13 of a Sephardic Jew I match with. I don't know her exact ancestry (her surname is Ashkenazi but the results show otherwise, indicating it is her married name):

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 29.6
    2 West_Med 18.93
    3 North_Atlantic 16.44
    4 West_Asian 9.81
    5 Red_Sea 9.77
    6 Sub-Saharan 6.22
    7 Amerindian 5.24
    8 Baltic 1.75
    9 South_Asian 0.75
    10 Siberian 0.73
    11 East_Asian 0.71
    12 Oceanian 0.05

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Sephardic_Jewish 11.29
    2 Algerian_Jewish 11.73
    3 South_Italian 11.9
    4 East_Sicilian 12.22
    5 West_Sicilian 12.26
    6 Italian_Jewish 12.59
    7 Ashkenazi 12.76
    8 Tunisian_Jewish 13.42
    9 Libyan_Jewish 13.65
    10 Central_Greek 13.82
    11 Italian_Abruzzo 13.92
    12 Tuscan 17.09
    13 Tunisian 17.18
    14 Greek_Thessaly 17.33
    15 Algerian 17.89
    16 Cyprian 18.69
    17 Mozabite_Berber 19.24
    18 Syrian 19.91
    19 Lebanese_Muslim 20.35
    20 Moroccan 20.58

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 93.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.8% Yoruban @ 8.07
    2 92.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.2% Mandenka @ 8.07
    3 92.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.3% Bantu_S.W. @ 8.15
    4 92.7% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.3% Mayan @ 8.16
    5 92.6% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.4% Bantu_S.E. @ 8.17
    6 92.4% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.6% Biaka_Pygmy @ 8.3
    7 93.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.9% Pima @ 8.32
    8 92.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.8% North_Amerindian @ 8.36
    9 92% Sephardic_Jewish + 8% Bantu_N.E. @ 8.39
    10 92.1% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.9% Luhya @ 8.4
    11 93.8% Sephardic_Jewish + 6.2% Karitiana @ 8.42
    12 57.6% Italian_Abruzzo + 42.4% Tunisian @ 8.57
    13 65.7% South_Italian + 34.3% Algerian @ 8.64
    14 64.6% South_Italian + 35.4% Tunisian @ 8.68
    15 92.2% Sephardic_Jewish + 7.8% Mbuti_Pygmy @ 8.69
    16 68% South_Italian + 32% Mozabite_Berber @ 8.73
    17 92.7% Algerian_Jewish + 7.3% Mayan @ 8.81
    18 92% Algerian_Jewish + 8% North_Amerindian @ 8.83
    19 93.1% Algerian_Jewish + 6.9% Pima @ 8.88
    20 92.4% Italian_Jewish + 7.6% Yoruban @ 8.91
    Ethnogene (most accurate so far IMO): Frisian 2.8%, Scottish 19.2%, Welsh 2.4%, English 29.0%, Irish 31.7%, Cornish 1.9%, Irish Traveller 4.0%, French 2.6%, Dutch 1.0%, German 1.8%, Western Indian 1.1%, Central/Southern Ashkenazi 1.0%, Norwegian 1.5%

    "In. Year. Out. See ya."- Chris Wilder

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