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Thread: Caucasian component in Arabian peninsula

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    Caucasian component in Arabian peninsula

    I have been curious to know; whenever i see Saudis, Yemenis and other gulf arabs post their results; they always have a Caucasian component alongside Southwest Asian(Arabian). The Caucasian component peeks at 70% in Abkhazia; and surprisingly Yemenis score higher in Caucasian than Saudi Arabians who tend to score higher in Southwest Asian except if they're Yemenite Jews, Highlanders or Bedouins, then they'll share similar results with Saudis. What gets me curious is how did this Caucasian component make its way through the Arabian peninsula any historical sources for it? because it seems it's more historical then recent and why is it higher in Yemenis and lower in saudi arabians when Yemenis inhabit the southern part of Arabian peninsula?

    Plus to this day, there are Arabians who score 90-100% in Southwest Asian(Arabian) today, which proves that this Caucasian component is not native to Arabian peninsula.

    Thanks in advance
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 11-28-2016 at 03:42 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hman92 View Post
    I have been curious to know; whenever i see Saudis, Yemenis and other gulf arabs post their results; they always have a Caucasian component alongside Southwest Asian(Arabian). The Caucasian component peeks at 70% in Abkhazia; and surprisingly Yemenis score higher in Caucasian than Saudi Arabians who tend to score higher in Southwest Asian except if they're Yemenite Jews, Highlanders or Bedouins, then they'll share similar results with Saudis. What gets me curious is how did this Caucasian component make its way through the Arabian peninsula any historical sources for it? because it seems it's more historical then recent and why is it higher in Yemenis and lower in saudi arabians when Yemenis inhabit the southern part of Arabian peninsula?

    Plus to this day, there are Arabians who score 90-100% in Southwest Asian(Arabian) today, which proves that this Caucasian component is not native to Arabian peninsula.

    Thanks in advance
    It's not a caucaus component. Rather it's genetic overlap via basal eurasian ancestry, which both contributed to caucasus and middle-east, ancestrally.

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    Can You post Gedrosia CHG K10 results for a Yemenite and a Saudite to see how much is the difference.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    Hman92

    Can You post Gedrosia CHG K10 results for a Yemenite and a Saudite to see how much is the difference.
    Saudi
    CHG 21.37
    Amerindian 0.13
    West african 2.91
    Papuan 0.13
    Southwest asian 56.64
    South Indian 1.27
    East Asian 0.35
    WHG 2.16
    Anatolian Farmers 14.97
    EHG 0.08


    Yemenite Jew

    CHG 25.90
    Amerindian 0.31
    West african 3.67
    Papuan 0.80
    Southwest asian 48.02
    South Indian 0.07
    East Asian 0.23
    WHG 0.83
    Anatolian Farmers 20.17
    EHG 0.00


    Yemeni

    CHG 24.96
    Amerindian 0.51
    West african 14.48
    Papuan 0.31
    Southwest asian 37.85
    South Indian 2.90
    East Asian 1.41
    WHG 1.32
    Anatolian Farmers 15.03
    EHG 1.25

    Supposedly a Yemenite Jew is used in these samples to represent what Yemenis were like ethnicity wise 1400 years ago or so; so if they Yemenite Jews hold CHG and Anatolian Farmers respectively at 25.90% and 20.17% then this might mean that these migrations/movements were more ancient than recent; still interesting because both CHG and Anatolian Farmers is not considered native to Arabian Peninsula only Southwest Asian is.

    Or as Arbogan have said maybe it was a genetic overlap via basal eurasian ancestry of some sort.
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-05-2016 at 07:26 AM.

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    Anatolia farmers can overlap. Because it is very close to Natufian/SWA. CHG is very unlikely to be a overlap because it has ANE that was absent from Levant and Arabian peninsula in very ancient times.

    This is Natufian. Most probably people like this were living in Arabia also. As You can see Anatolian farmers can be a native thing.

    CHG 1.95
    Amerindian -
    W_African 3.56
    Papuan 0.56
    SW_Asian 42.81
    S_Indian -
    E_Asian -
    WHG 6.57
    Anatolian_Farmers 43.77
    EHG 0.78


    And this Jordan Bronze Age

    CHG 24.54
    Amerindian 1.37
    W_African 0.84
    Papuan 0.40
    SW_Asian 37.45
    S_Indian -
    E_Asian 0.09
    WHG 1.26
    Anatolian_Farmers 30.85
    EHG 3.21

    So my understanding is that CHG came to Yemen with Proto-Semitic people.

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    This isn't true CHG. It's probably ZNF or iranian_chalocolithic ancestry which is supposedly partially "CHG". It's related to the expansion of J1.

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  13. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by hman92 View Post

    Supposedly a Yemenite Jew is used in these samples to represent what Yemenis were like ethnicity wise 1400 years ago or so; so if they Yemenite Jews hold CHG and Anatolian Farmers respectively at 25.90% and 20.17% then this might mean that these migrations/movements were more ancient than recent; still interesting because both CHG and Anatolian Farmers is not considered native to Arabian Peninsula only Southwest Asian is.

    More like Arabian originates further north , with Proto-Semites expanded from the Levant. So the Iranian Neolithic (you might see it as CHG or Caucasus-Gredosia sometimes) is probably an admixture Arabians got from the earliest proto-Arabian communities in the Southern Levant before the expansion into the Arabian peninsula.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    hman92

    Anatolia farmers can overlap. Because it is very close to Natufian/SWA. CHG is very unlikely to be a overlap because it has ANE that was absent from Levant and Arabian peninsula in very ancient times.

    This is Natufian. Most probably people like this were living in Arabia also. As You can see Anatolian farmers can be a native thing.

    CHG 1.95
    Amerindian -
    W_African 3.56
    Papuan 0.56
    SW_Asian 42.81
    S_Indian -
    E_Asian -
    WHG 6.57
    Anatolian_Farmers 43.77
    EHG 0.78


    And this Jordan Bronze Age

    CHG 24.54
    Amerindian 1.37
    W_African 0.84
    Papuan 0.40
    SW_Asian 37.45
    S_Indian -
    E_Asian 0.09
    WHG 1.26
    Anatolian_Farmers 30.85
    EHG 3.21

    So my understanding is that CHG came to Yemen with Proto-Semitic people.
    But the odd thing is to this day is you have indigenous Arabians who score at least 100%-90% when it comes to the SW asian component which brings me to the question how the pure ones looked like? This is an example image i posted in another post, I believe phenotypically speaking, the old man in both pics would hold unto to what a "pure" southwest asian would look like; and the young guy his son i believe has a minimal east african shift while the older guy with the beard has what you call levantine shift; especially with that much facial hair because pure Southwest asians don't hold much facial hair.

    f13691c4f0043349f9fdcf162ae548c9cec64921.jpgw-last-yemen-jews-1425545923.jpg
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-12-2016 at 04:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hman92 View Post
    But the odd thing is to this day is you have indigenous Arabians who score at least 100%-90% when it comes to the SW asian component which brings me to the question how the pure ones looked like? This is an example image i posted in another post, I believe phenotypically speaking, the old man in both pics would hold unto to what a "pure" southwest asian would look like; and the young guy his son i believe has a minimal east african shift while the older guy with the beard has what you call levantine shift; especially with that much facial hair because pure Southwest asians don't hold much facial hair if any at all.
    Well first, SW Asian is not an actual component but rather a result of having one population to peaks 100% in a cluster. For example, we can create an Egyptian component by having a component to peaks at 100% in Egyptians and have Palestinians, Jordanians modelled as 50% Egyptian or Libyans modelles as 35-40% Egyptian. This does not necessarily mean that Palestinians, Jordanians and Libyans are actually 35-40 or 50% Egyptian ancestry. SW Asian I believe is actually mostly Natufian+CHG-related/Iran Neolithic+SSA ancestry (East African type). The Natufian+Iran Neolithic/CHG-related should contain quite a lot of Basal Eurasian (African-like admixture). The CHG should not be actual one but rather something CHG-like/Iran N-like that lacks any ANE as indigenous SW Asians usually don't have ANE.

    It make sense if they have African ancestry though as indigenous Arabians often score around 5-10% SSA of East African type probably from Horner-like population who in turn got it from Nilo-Saharan/Nilotic-like SSA groups). Pure SW Asians I think look like tribal Bedouins in the Arabian peninsula. Wow I never heard of this thing called "Levantine shift". Can you elaborate more on it please? I also noticed that many Saudi Arabians, Qataris actually hardly have any facial hair at all. I think the stereotype that Arabs are hairy people is completely wrong and perpetuated by Western fear of Islamic world. I think when they say Arabs are "hairy people", they are confusing Talibans for Arabs when in fact they are Afghans.
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 12-05-2016 at 04:49 PM.

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    No modern Arabians lack the component affiliated with the ancient Caucasus or Iran Neolithic samples, not any of the samples we have so far anyway.

    In some ADMIXTURE runs, a SW Asian component peaks at 100% in certain Arabians, as they form their own cluster easily due to their isolation and small founding population. However, in more stable runs (see, e.g., genetiker's runs), even the most isolated Arabian samples we have, the BedouinB, show notable Caucasus or Iran N. This was visible even in some of the runs before we had Near Eastern aDNA, but is now even more evident considering we actually have ancient samples to compare with.

    Proto-Semitic dispersals from the Levant during the Bronze Age are a great candidate for this component's dispersal into Arabia. This would explain why it's notably low in certain Berbers and East Africans, despite their significant SW Asian ancestry.

    When/how it got into the Levant is an interesting question, considering it was lacking in the Mesolithic/Neolithic Levant samples, but found in the Y-DNA J1 Bronze Age samples from Jordan. Y-DNA J is notably absent or rare in Levant/Anatolia aDNA before the Bronze Age, and rather prevalent in the Caucasus/Iran since at least the Mesolithic period.

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