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Thread: Z225 (DF27>Z225) - another early branch of DF27 with an Iberian connection

  1. #41
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    Celtic Iberian Jew?
    Y-DNA (P)
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    Spain Andalucia Spanish Empire (1506-1701)
    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    There is some aDNA evidence that ancient Z225 is Iberian. But DF27, not really. DF27 guys got there anciently; but when they did, they looked like foreigners. We're just quibbling about what stamps were on their passports. That will be resolved, sometime, by better evidence. Probably not by better quibbling.
    For someone who shows such a degree of skepticism and was trying to question that connection not many pages ago, I take it as big step.

    In any case excuse me if I ignore your provocations and avoid any discussion with you.
    Do you have a question or topic about genetics in Spain and/or prefer to use Spanish language? Visit the new subforum!

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  2. #42
    Gold Class Member
    Pittsburgh, PA
    100% European
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    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    I doubt that samples such as P312+ specimen EHU002 2562–2306 cal BCE from El Hundido, Monasterio de Rodilla, Burgos, Castilla y León would show negative for DF27 if there were enough coverage. Same for specimens I6539 from 2500–2000 BCE and I5665 from 2280–1984 cal BCE. So it wouldn't be 0% in Spain. Too many of the other samples from Bronze Age Spain are positive for DF27 for those not to be DF27+.

    Of course, that is why I mentioned it.

    Yes, it should be attempted. We can't say something doesn't exist somewhere at a significant rate without successful reads.

    Apart from the fact that there is more to do there is still a limit on what can be done. There is a limited number of ancient specimens and technology has a limit as to successfully getting reads on ancient DNA. So once all of the remaining specimens have been tested or retested with newer technology we will have to rely on what is available. The number of DF27+ Bronze Age specimens in Olalde et al. 2019 is a pretty good idea that it flourished shortly after it arrived and it's arrival is likely as soon as Steppe DNA arrived in Spain and it had to go through France to get there. Several of the German Bell Beaker specimens with successful reads of L2 showed positive for that SNP so already they aren't DF27. It already looks like DF27 will barely show up outside of France, Spain, and Portugal in the Bronze Age. Any more recent period will most likely show France and Spain to have the most DF27 just based on the other ancient specimens from the Iron Age that have appeared in studies. Even the DF27 Crusader sample from Lebanon shows to have Iberian DNA.
    Don’t forget about the two Z196 Sicilian Beakers dated to around 2200 BCE.

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