Two "most Polish" Y-DNA subclades do not belong to R1a

[Tomenable]

Peter Gwozdz has recently updated his table of Y-DNA subclades sorted by value of PCI (Poland Concentration Index). Interestingly, the two most specifically Polish subclades (highest PCI = found much more often among Poles than among other populations) both do not belong to R1a, but to I1 and R1b.

The first place belongs to:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y6340/

http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthread.php...P-test-for-I1-P

I1a1-Y6340 (Y6349, "Vistula", "Polish Type"):

Frequency in Poland: 2,1% of the population
Poland Concentration Index value: 79-99%

The second place belongs to:

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y6451/

http://www.clancrawfordnorthwest.org...%206-14-16.htm

R1b1a1a2a1a1c2b1b4a-Z17913 (also Y6451):

Frequency in Poland: 0,4% of the population
Poland Concentration Index value: 68-100%

It is one of subclades belonging to branch R1b-U106.

Source:

http://www.gwozdz.org/polishclades.html

[RCO]

Curious methodology that can be applied to any other nationality.

[Waldemar]

Over half of men (51.1%) in Poland have rather specific SNPs according to Peter Gwozdz. Interesting...

I-Y6340 - TMRCA 1550 ybp
R-Y6451 - TMRCA 1500 ybp
R-Y2905 - TMRCA 1800 ybp (4.3%)
R-YP254 - TMRCA 2100 ybp (9.1%)
R-YP3927 - TMRCA 1750 ybp (1.0%)
R-L260 - TMRCA 2600 ybp (12.9%)
R-FGC8158 - TMRCA 4500 ybp
R-YP256 - TMRCA 2300 ybp (9.3%)
R-YP515 - TMRCA 2300 ybp (2.2%)
R-YP593 - TMRCA 1300 ybp
I-CTS1977 - TMRCA 4000 ybp
I-L1237 - TMRCA 2900 ybp
I-L161.1 - TMRCA 7000 ybp
R-YP415 - TMRCA 1600 ybp
R-YP444 - TMRCA 1500 ybp
R-YP1410 - TMRCA 2500 ybp (0.2%)
R-YP1017 - TMRCA 1900 ybp (1.4%)
CTS6364 - TMRCA 4200 ybp

40.4% of the "proto-Polish" males experienced demographic explosion between 650 BC and 200 AD (Y2905, YP254, YP3927, L260, YP256, YP515, YP1410, YP1017). What culture/s would you associate with this massive expansion?

[Mis]

Bardzo dobre pytanie. Jeżeli zaistniały dobre warunki dla tych grup to dlaczego Goci odeszli ?

[leonardo]

So what Peter Gwodz is saying is, haplotypes that are most contained in Poland are not R1a. This we know as R1a is spread out compared to more of these provincial haplotypes, even R-M458. The question then becomes, what are the sheer numbers? A small isolated haplotype may be almost completely self contained in Poland, but there may be a much greater number of men in Poland, and those descended form there, who are R1a. Does not the sheer numbers also reflect relevance?

[lyakh]

40.4% of the "proto-Polish" males experienced demographic explosion between 650 BC and 200 AD (Y2905, YP254, YP3927, L260, YP256, YP515, YP1410, YP1017). What culture/s would you associate with this massive expansion?

It is the most probable that these branches come from the east of what is modern Poland (Zarubintsy culture in antiquity, proto-Praga-Korchak culture from late antiquity (which was located mostly in the Pripyat river area) and Kiev culture), not from Przeworsk culture and Wielbark culture. Probably vast majority of people from Przeworsk and Wielbark cultures emigrated from what is today Poland, so the popluation was probably mostly replaced by Slavs arriving from the east.