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Thread: E1b1b1b2b

  1. #1
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    E1b1b1b2b

    How old is this haplogroup? how many years is it older than E1b1b1c1a? is it natufian as some consider it to be? at the moment i also belong to the subclade of E-V1515 would that mean my ancestors who were E moved up to the epipalethic levant as E1B1B1B2B and then moved down to Northern Ethiopia/Eritrea as E-V1515 before they crossed into Southern Arabia?

    Thank you in advance
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-14-2016 at 10:57 PM.

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  3. #2
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    According to Y-Full E1b1b1b2b-V1515 is about 11-14 000 years old. It is a descendant of E1b1b1b2-Z830, which is about 18-21 000 years old. E1b1b1c1a-M84 is around 7-9000 years old, but its parent M34 13-17 000 years old, and M123 is older still.

    Our Natufian samples are from about 12-13 000 years ago. Two of them were tested to be Z830, most had no call for V1515 equivalent SNPs, one was negative for it. So they were definitely distantly related to V1515, but since we only have samples from one site, we don't know whether it existed in some other part of the Natufian area or not. Basically we don't know, it's possible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    According to Y-Full E1b1b1b2b-V1515 is about 11-14 000 years old. It is a descendant of E1b1b1b2-Z830, which is about 18-21 000 years old. E1b1b1c1a-M84 is around 7-9000 years old, but its parent M34 13-17 000 years old, and M123 is older still.

    Our Natufian samples are from about 12-13 000 years ago. Two of them were tested to be Z830, most had no call for V1515 equivalent SNPs, one was negative for it. So they were definitely distantly related to V1515, but since we only have samples from one site, we don't know whether it existed in some other part of the Natufian area or not. Basically we don't know, it's possible.
    This is interesting; from what i read it's believed Sabaens started settling in Southern Arabia around 2nd millennium; and E-V1515 was formed around 11th-14th Millennium which precedes 2nd millennium by 9,000-12,000 years; and the world population at the time(11th-14th millenium) was less than 1 million; so according to this our ancestors might have been one of the first people to populate Arabia.

    Basically it means there was a 9,000-12,000 year gap before the arrival of the Sabaen arabs; so according to this theory there is a very high possibility that we preceded the Qahtanites/Sabaens in southern arabia by thousands of years; especially considering Eritrea's proximity to Yemen.

    The other thing i found is today there are Arabians from different tribes across Arabia who's haplogroup shows up as E when the majority of their bretheren in the same tribe belong to the J1 or J2; which might draw the case that their forefathers might have formed alliances with the surrounding tribes and integrated into Qahtani or Adnani tribes with time; but the reality of it is most of these E carriers in the region are likely remnants of ancient Arabians.

    E carriers in the region carry mostly 2 types of E haplogroup either the one that comes from Eritrea/Northern Ethiopia region or Levant.

    Also haplogroup results in recent times prove that the majority Qahtan/Adnan tribe members belong to the J1-J2 haplogroups while a minority members of these same tribes also belong to other haplogroups and the most prominent minority is usually E1b1b1.

    From my research, the semite J haplogroup in the region that makes up majority of arabian peninsula today might have been formed around 5000-6000 years ago at most which means they're basically a newly formed haplogroup rather than an old one.

    As a matter of fact, the head of my own tribe holds J-FGC1698 which is only 3,000 years old, and the E-V1515 is as old as 11,000-15,000 years; so you can see the difference there.

    The reason i find E-V1515 so interesting is its found in eritrea; and eritrea is right beside yemen so i believe yemen will also have this subclade in growing numbers if more people tested for it.

    With time we will learn more and im hoping things will be a lot clearer for us.
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-15-2016 at 03:04 PM.

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  7. #4
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    cool results maybe your haplogroup
    arrived with this guy army/soldiers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraha
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V1515/
    best regards
    adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    cool results maybe your haplogroup
    arrived with this guy army/soldiers https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abraha
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-V1515/
    best regards
    adam
    Abraha came before the arrival of islam which is very recent, and most people that came to yemen with abraha never really assimilated into yemeni society; they were isolated for historical/political reason; they're still identified to this day; plus abraha's descendants settled mostly as an isolated group in western yemen and im from eastern yemen; so if there was any abraha's followers they would most likely settle in western yemen.

    Plus if you are a recent arrival to Yemen which means moreso 1,000-2,000 years ago it will be very hard to assimilate into society because of the stringent tribal codes that are put in place by Qahtani/Adnani tribes in the region; they were already established and strong during that time.

    There's also too many arabians from prominent tribes who hold this subclade that i believe this subclade has way deeper roots in the region than only 1400 years; thats why there needs to be more studies on this case.

    By the time Abraha came; the Qahtanites and Adnanites were already established in the region for almost 4000-3000 years; so my subclade origin in the region has to be way deeper than that time period.
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-15-2016 at 04:37 PM.

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    There's also too many arabians from prominent tribes who hold this subclade that i believe this subclade has way deeper roots in the region than only 1400 years.

    dear hman92,
    do you have other confirmed e-v1515 with arabian background ?
    best regards
    adam

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    There's also too many arabians from prominent tribes who hold this subclade that i believe this subclade has way deeper roots in the region than only 1400 years.

    dear hman92,
    do you have other confirmed e-v1515 with arabian background ?
    best regards
    adam
    Kingjoh, the issue with E-V1515 subclade is its in its early phases; and people estimate it to be 10,000 years old to 20,000 years old so the details on it are not even concrete yet; and if any arabians belonged to the E haplogroup; then E-V1515 would be one of the oldest subclades to exist for arabians up to now; so this would mean that this subclade is more ancient than recent, so yes you see people claiming to belong to it from arabia but I have to establish concrete information; so it might take sometime; but for now i do believe this subclade needs to be studied thoroughly though.

    From the people who usually claim to belong to this subclade, their tribes belong to the southern part of arabia so around the empty quarter down to upper hadhramout where im from; but you also have cases of scattered people from other parts of arabia too.
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-15-2016 at 05:15 PM.

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  15. #8
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    Have you tested for any subclades beneath V1515?

    To date the age of V1515 lineages in Arabia, you should at least estimate the divergence of the different Arabian clades from their African relatives (of course, some actual ancient DNA would be ideal).

    For instance, if you were negative for all V1515 subclades (thus far only reported in northern/western Eritrea and one Portugese sample AFAIK), that could be consistent with a very ancient Arabian presence, although you would have to check your divergence from other V1515* carriers. On the other hand, if you were positive for M293, which is clearly associated with southeast Africa, that would be consistent with historic contacts between southeast Africa and the Arabian peninsula. You could also belong to one of many other subclades, such as V6 or V42.

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lank View Post
    Have you tested for any subclades beneath V1515?

    To date the age of V1515 lineages in Arabia, you should at least estimate the divergence of the different Arabian clades from their African relatives (of course, some actual ancient DNA would be ideal).

    For instance, if you were negative for all V1515 subclades (thus far only reported in northern/western Eritrea and one Portugese sample AFAIK), that could be consistent with a very ancient Arabian presence, although you would have to check your divergence from other V1515* carriers. On the other hand, if you were positive for M293, which is clearly associated with southeast Africa, that would be consistent with historic contacts between southeast Africa and the Arabian peninsula. You could also belong to one of many other subclades, such as V6 or V42.
    I think im going to do further testing with yfull, because up to now with the info I have im viable to create a new subclade below E-V1515 but thats too early to tell.
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-16-2016 at 05:48 AM.

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  19. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lank View Post
    Have you tested for any subclades beneath V1515?

    To date the age of V1515 lineages in Arabia, you should at least estimate the divergence of the different Arabian clades from their African relatives (of course, some actual ancient DNA would be ideal).

    For instance, if you were negative for all V1515 subclades (thus far only reported in northern/western Eritrea and one Portugese sample AFAIK), that could be consistent with a very ancient Arabian presence, although you would have to check your divergence from other V1515* carriers. On the other hand, if you were positive for M293, which is clearly associated with southeast Africa, that would be consistent with historic contacts between southeast Africa and the Arabian peninsula. You could also belong to one of many other subclades, such as V6 or V42.
    I apologize for the duplicate comment,

    Im still new to this haplogroup study but im picking up on it, anyways so i checked my pertinent SNPs and i scored negative for E1b1b1b2b1 (E-P72) which I believe = M293; and i also scored negative for E1b1b1b2b2(CTS8943), E1b1b1b2b2(CTS7661),
    E1b1b1b2b2(CTS6013) which are equivalent to E-V1486
    haplogroup-e-v1515-trombetta-2015.jpg
    This i believe might restrict my haplogroup to the Eritrea/Northern Ethiopia region as of 11,000-14,000 years ago rather than going southwards, and with the proximity of the horn to yemen, it makes it highly possible that my ancestors must've reached the shores of Yemen thousands of years before the modern Yemenites even arrived; knowingly that, the reason why i believe this theory is highly possible is because of the migrations between Yemen and the horn goes back to tens of thousands of years.
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-17-2016 at 09:46 AM.

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