Results 1 to 6 of 6

Thread: haplogroup j1-Z1878

  1. #1
    Registered Users
    Posts
    235
    Sex

    haplogroup j1-Z1878

    How old is this haplogroup? where did it originate? is it considered the head of the semitic tree? because im not finding much information on it

    Thank you in advance
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-22-2016 at 09:39 PM.

  2. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Missouri1455 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (12-22-2016),  Akra20m (12-22-2016),  Power77 (12-22-2016),  Smilelover (09-03-2017)

  3. #2
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,486
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-U152
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    J1-Z1878's TMRCA is at least 7,500 years old, if not 7,800 years old. It's a major branch of P58, the most prominent in fact, since it gave birth to the most successful J1 lineages under P58. Despite the fact that most of those who carry sub-branches of Z1878 are Semitic speakers and that the Proto-Semites are likely to have carried most if not all of these sub-branches, I'd argue Z1878 itself is too old to have anything to do with Semitic.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 12-22-2016 at 10:16 PM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  4. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Akra20m (12-22-2016),  J1 DYS388=13 (12-23-2016),  Missouri1455 (12-22-2016),  Power77 (12-22-2016)

  5. #3
    Registered Users
    Posts
    235
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    J1-Z1878's TMRCA is at least 7,500 years old, if not 7,800 years old. It's a major branch of P58, the most prominent in fact, since it gave birth to the most successful J1 lineages under P58. Despite the fact that most of those who carry sub-branches of Z1878 are Semitic speakers and that the Proto-Semites are likely to have carried most if not all of these sub-branches, I'd argue Z1878 itself is too old to have anything to do with Semitic.
    Interesting stuff, What countries have the highest rates of it? so did originate in the fertile crescent?
    if were to speak about abraham would he have been the founder of this tree?
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-22-2016 at 10:24 PM.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Missouri1455 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (12-22-2016),  Akra20m (12-22-2016),  Power77 (12-22-2016)

  7. #4
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,486
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-U152
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    Quote Originally Posted by hman92 View Post
    Interesting stuff, What countries have the highest rates of it? so did originate in the fertile crescent?
    if were to speak about abraham would he have been the founder of this tree?
    Like P58, Z1878 is widespread throughout SW Asia, IMO there isn't much of a difference between P58 and Z1878 in terms of frequency. As to where it originated, I have no idea to be perfectly honest, in terms of likeliness I'd point to the eastern parts of the Fertile Crescent (Iraq, Syria, Iran), but I could easily be wrong. J1 has proven to be a very elusive marker in ancient sampling so far, which is surprising considering how common this lineage now is, in many ways this reminds me of I1's equally elusive nature in most studies to date.

    If we admit that Abraham did in fact exist (his historicity is doubtful to say the least), he would belong to a later time frame than both Z1878 and Common Semitic (AKA Proto-Semitic), so no, he could not have had a major role in the spread or genesis of either of the above.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 12-22-2016 at 10:59 PM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  8. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Akra20m (12-22-2016),  Missouri1455 (12-22-2016),  Power77 (12-22-2016)

  9. #5
    Registered Users
    Posts
    235
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    Like P58, Z1878 is widespread throughout SW Asia, IMO there isn't much of a difference between P58 and Z1878 in terms of frequency. As to where it originated, I have no idea to be perfectly honest, in terms of likeliness I'd point to the eastern parts of the Fertile Crescent (Iraq, Syria, Iran), but I could easily be wrong. J1 has proven to be a very elusive marker in ancient sampling so far, which is surprising considering how common this lineage now is, in many ways this reminds me of I1's equally elusive nature in most studies to date.

    If we admit that Abraham did in fact exist (his historicity is doubtful to say the least), he would belong to a later time frame than both Z1878 and Common Semitic (AKA Proto-Semitic), so no, he could not have had a major role in the spread or genesis of either of the above.
    Interesting, so supposadly what year would have the common semetic era started? Would the akkadians be the first semitic group to exist?
    Last edited by Missouri1455; 12-23-2016 at 12:06 AM.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Missouri1455 For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (12-23-2016),  Power77 (12-23-2016)

  11. #6
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,486
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-U152
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    Quote Originally Posted by hman92 View Post
    Interesting, so supposadly what year would have the common semetic era started? Would the akkadians be the first semitic group to exist?
    We can't say for sure when Common Semitic proper emerged as a spoken language and became distinct from pre-Proto-Semitic, what we do know however is when Common Semitic ceased to exist as a spoken language, the break up of Proto-Semitic can thus be circumscribed to the first half of the 4th millenium BCE (so between 6,000 and 5,500 years ago). The Akkadians, while tied to the earliest branch (East Semitic) to part from the Semitic trunk, emerged as a distinct group only during the course of the 3rd millenium BCE.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  12. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Awale (12-23-2016),  J1 DYS388=13 (12-23-2016),  Missouri1455 (12-23-2016),  Power77 (12-23-2016),  Smilelover (12-29-2016)

Similar Threads

  1. H1o haplogroup
    By maringiurgiu in forum H
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 01-27-2021, 07:15 PM
  2. Haplogroup U7
    By mlakshmi in forum U
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 05-22-2020, 06:32 PM
  3. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-10-2020, 09:53 PM
  4. Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-30-2018, 11:55 PM
  5. R2 haplogroup ??
    By Smilelover in forum R/R0
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-30-2016, 08:00 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •