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Thread: Jewish Discussion Thread

  1. #1
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    Jewish Discussion Thread

    Split from pictures thread:

    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    What do you think Joseph
    But all three of my grandparents Jews under the Nuremberg Laws I
    Jews, Germans were sending me to the gas chambers without even thinking
    Am I right or not let's think logically.
    from me
    person


    Judaism is determined by your mother and a gentile mother everything else does not matter
    And as Hitler would have killed you had diagnosed them, Hitler does not matter who the Jews in the sky that only God determines
    I disagree. I'm not basing this off of Hitler's definition, I'm saying the ancient tradition (and what is found in the Torah quite frankly) shows that being a Jew is determined from patrilineal descent. If anyone here was going by Hitler's definition we'd be talking about phenotypes and admixture and such, which we're not.

    And that's right that only YHWH determines. He alone determines, not some Rabbis .



    Happy Hanukkah, btw.
    Last edited by Erik; 12-25-2016 at 08:03 PM.

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  3. #2
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    hittler direct paternal line was e1b1b1-v13 far a way genetically from his r1b and r1a followers in fact by paternal line he is much closer to awale
    and autosomaly speaking the real aryans are people in pakistan and north india
    not germans , french or russians ........
    i am no expert on judaisem old tradition when after the sinai event
    when did they follow the dad lineage ? .....
    regards
    Adam


    p.s
    do you realise that even though you paternal line is cohen you are not count as jewish .....

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    hittler direct paternal line was e1b1b1-v13 far a way genetically from his r1b and r1a followers in fact by paternal line he is much closer to awale
    and autosomaly speaking the real aryans are people in pakistan and north india
    not germans , french or russians ........
    i am no expert on judaisem old tradition when after the sinai event
    when did they follow the dad lineage ? .....
    regards
    Adam


    p.s
    do you realise that even though you paternal line is cohen you are not count as jewish .....
    First of all, it is not certain that Shitler was E-V13. In fact, it is much more likely that he is/was I1 or R1a-Z282 (you should check the Hutter and Hiedler Y-STR results on ysearch). And secondly, the best genetic representatives of the Ancient Aryans are not people from India, Iran or Pakistan! And thirdly (and most importantly), your argument is irrelevant as to who should be considered Jewish or non-Jewish.
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    ― Socrates


    “The unexamined life is not worth living.”
    ― Socrates

    “There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
    ― Socrates

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingjohn View Post
    hittler direct paternal line was e1b1b1-v13 far a way genetically from his r1b and r1a followers in fact by paternal line he is much closer to awale
    and autosomaly speaking the real aryans are people in pakistan and north india
    not germans , french or russians ........
    i am no expert on judaisem old tradition when after the sinai event
    when did they follow the dad lineage ? .....
    regards
    Adam


    p.s
    do you realise that even though you paternal line is cohen you are not count as jewish .....
    As just one example, in the opening chapter of the Book of Numbers, the Israelites are conducting a census. (See Numbers 1:2.) In that census, all references to genealogy are patrilineal. (E.g., Numbers 1:18: “[A]nd they declared their pedigrees after their families by their fathers’ houses.”)

    Also no need to tell me or anyone else if we're Jews or not. I feel sorry for how the Rabbis talk to you, but you don't need to talk like that to me.

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    An interesting blog post I found:

    The basic laws of Judaism apply to foreigners who live among us: the Torah obligates them to fast on Yom Kippur, refrain from work on Sabbath, and destroy leaven on Pesach. Likewise, they must not blaspheme. Thus, an Egyptian foreigner was liable under Jewish law because his offense had been gross, he lived among us, and he was somewhat connected to the Jewish people through his mother.

    In rabbinical tradition, Jewishness is matrilineal while clan affiliation is patrilineal. This leaves an “interfaith” family without a clan and, consequently, with no land to settle in. The assumption that “interfaith” families settled in the land of the wife’s clan is impractical: she did not inherit the land and physically had no place to live in. Women went to live in their husband’s clan’s tents; the suggestion that a man moves into the home of his wife’s clan amounts to matriarchy, which is alien to the Jewish Bedouin mind. Such an arrangement for mixed families would put intermarried women at an advantage compared to their properly married sisters: an intermarried sister would have gotten a land plot while the one married to a Jew would not. The Torah cannot mean to prescribe such an unjust arrangement.

    Sages accepted patrilineal descent for all other nations. Rashi cites Kiddushin 67b: “A son follows his father” to assert the originally patrilineal descent. Also, the Pharaoh ordered the killing of Jewish boys rather than girls when he sought to extinguish the people. Rabbis counter without much proof that Jewishness was patrilineal, as it was with other nations, until the law was given on Sinai. That contradicts their other doctrine that the forefathers observed the law before it was given to the entire people; never mind that the forefathers married pagans unreservedly.

    In practice, Jewish women certainly married the strangers who settled in the Land of Israel and adopted Jewish customs. They lived in towns without inheriting land plots, or they rented them. If the male stranger (ger) observed Judaism, their children were Jewish, according to their father’s new religion. If the woman married a non-observant foreigner (toshav), their children obviously followed the father’s religion. To all practical purposes, Jewishness was patrilineal.

    The Jews-by-father were frowned upon: Leviticus 25:45 distinguishes between “your brother” and “someone rooted in ger’s family.” The skeptical attitude is unsurprising: landless converts-gerim were likely to take off and leave Israel along with Judaism. After a few generations, the descendants of gerim fully assimilated and often attained significant positions in Jewish society.

    In rabbinical Judaism, the entry into Jewishness is religious while the exit is biological. Religious conversion is required to enter the nation, but the children of baptized Jews are considered Jewish. A more consistent definition would be, “Children of somewhat Jewish families are Jewish.” A foreign woman who marries a Jew and casts her lot with the Israelis—her children are Jewish. The self-hating Peace Now Jews cannot impart the Jewish soul into their children.
    http://samsonblinded.org/blog/jewish...s-paternal.htm

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    Quote Originally Posted by Power77 View Post
    And secondly, the best genetic representatives of the Ancient Aryans are not people from India, Iran or Pakistan>:.
    I think you're both going at this differently though... I think KJ is basically saying people in South-Central Asia and the like are their true descendants genomically which is technically true. It would be like me taking South-Cushitic pastoral nomads who migrated into Southeast Africa and substantially contributed to groups like Tutsis and saying that I have more to do with them than Tutsis do. Sure, I'm genetically closer to what they were like but their true-blue progeny are Maasais, Tutsis et al. who aren't even Cushitic speakers... Granted, some Eastern Europeans are definitely also, to some extent, descended from the likes of Iranic speaking nomads who wandered the steppes (i.e. the Scythians).

    But yeah, this is an off-topic part of the discussion anyway. I'd like to see Agamemnon come here and explain things seriously regarding the main topic... I recall him having very good counter-arguments against the sort of rabbinical arguments KJ has been sharing. He just didn't bother in the prior thread cos it would've been too much off-topic content for that thread.
    Last edited by Awale; 12-25-2016 at 09:11 PM.

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    While we're waiting for my fellow Kohen Agamemnon to come in and explain on the topic of "who's a Jew?"...

    Let me ask, isn't it quite distasteful how the UN passed an anti-Israel resolution just hours before Hanukkah? Quite ironic though, considering Hanukkah commemorates the rededication of the temple (located in what is now occupied East Jerusalem, ofc ) and later the establishment of a Jewish state once again in Eretz Yisrael.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erik View Post
    Let me ask, isn't it quite distasteful how the UN passed an anti-Israel resolution just hours before Hanukkah? Quite ironic though, considering Hanukkah commemorates the rededication of the temple (located in what is now occupied East Jerusalem, ofc ) and later the establishment of a Jewish state once again in Eretz Yisrael.
    Unfortunately, Enrique-san... That's a rather political seeming tangent which would mean this thread, or that particular tangent, would need to be Atrium-ed. So lets not break off into such a tangent, please. Simply just wait up on Agamemnon or discuss something else cultural and "ethnological" relating to Jews while we wait.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Awale View Post
    Unfortunately, Enrique-san... That's a rather political seeming tangent which would mean this thread, or that particular tangent, would need to be Atrium-ed. So lets not break off into such a tangent, please. Simply just wait up on Agamemnon or discuss something else cultural and "ethnological" relating to Jews while we wait.
    Sure. But it's hard to separate since many relevant things with Jews tend to be seen as quite political. However, if we limit things to ethnological-type discussion, then it should be fine.

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    BTW kingjohn, do you care to explain why Jewish Y-DNA is much more homogeneous than Jewish mtDNA?
    “The only true wisdom is in knowing you know nothing.”
    ― Socrates


    “The unexamined life is not worth living.”
    ― Socrates

    “There is only one good, knowledge, and one evil, ignorance.”
    ― Socrates

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