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Thread: Typical English 23 ancestry composition

  1. #1
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    Typical English 23 ancestry composition

    I thought that I'd take a fresh look at a 10 month long discussion on the 23andMe OE forum. I selected 20 samples listed in the discussion, but rejected two for insufficient data. Finding English samples with no family history of recent admixture was difficult, so this could be said to represent "mostly English", most commonly with some other known British or Irish admixture - Irish, Scottish, Welsh, or Cornish.

    This was my finding:

    23andMe in Speculative Mode

    An Average English Result.

    • 58% British & Irish
    • 12% French & German
    • 4% Scandinavian
    • 22% Broadly NW European


    • 1.1% Southern European
    • 0.4% Eastern European
    • 0.1% Finnish (only two samples)



    That adds up to 97.7%. The remainder consists of Broadly European, Unassigned, and "others" at very low percentage: Middle Eastern & North African, East Asian & Native American, Ashkenazi, Yakut, West African, Sub Saharan African, West African.

    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
    mtDNA: H6a1a8 (Norfolk at Generation 9)
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  3. #2
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    A few things to note.

    It's difficult to find many samples with a researched and recorded English ancestry that does not include some other British or Irish admixture in recent family history.

    Most known admixture is indeed Irish or other British. A few mentions of distant German, Huguenot, and French.

    All 18 cases had a percentage of French & German, varying from 5.8 to 27% (mine was the highest).

    All 18 cases had a percentage of Scandinavian, varying from 0.6 to 12.4%

    15 out of 18 of the samples had a small percentage of Southern European.

    Finnish turned up in small percentages in four samples.

    That appears to be "English" on 23andMe.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
    mtDNA: H6a1a8 (Norfolk at Generation 9)
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  5. #3
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    Thanks for compiling this, is the East Anglian at 36% b&i a relative of yours or one that you found?
    It's a bit confusing to see your numbers along with these other samples. I don't think it's uncommon for someone born outside England to fit in close to the average and yet you appear to be on the extremities. Did you draw any new ideas or theories on this? I can't help but think that all roads lead to living DNA results, and that Jan 27 still seems terribly far away

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  7. #4
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    Maybe the 0.1 Finnish are me and my dad...
    If ours are not in the data set, I can happily PM ours to you to compile.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  9. #5
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    You'd need more samples but it looks like this could be perceived as how immigrants [Huguenots, Jews, etc.] influenced English regions.

    Is it possible to get a geographical idea? Example if a person's ancestry is 80% Midlands. Be interesting if there's much difference.




    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    All 18 cases had a percentage of French & German, varying from 5.8 to 27% (mine was the highest).
    But yours is particularly interesting given as you're perceived by 23&me as more French & German than the person with a known German ancestor. Who is the other East Anglian? A relative of yours?
    Last edited by Calas; 01-20-2017 at 10:18 AM.

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  11. #6
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    36% B&I was indeed my mother. I actually struggled to find English samples with no known family history of Irish, Scottish, etc. Hence I felt justified allowing my own and my mother's results in there.
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
    mtDNA: H6a1a8 (Norfolk at Generation 9)
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  13. #7
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    Do you want to include mine (see below). I am only a bit Scottish (which bit may be original Irish) but the Shropshire Cheshire is close to Wales.
    In spec mode, all in % mostly ignoring decimals
    62 B/I
    12 French German
    4 Scandinavian
    0.4 Finn
    20 broad NW European
    0.1 North African. It is all a bit more about ancient roots of the UK than recent ancestry

    edit Tut! I think that might be already in your table, now i have zoomed in. Or i have a cousin?
    Last edited by Judith; 01-22-2017 at 01:39 PM.
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    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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  15. #8
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    I've had Finnish, Ashkenazi and small amounts on Native American on a few tests. In some instances from what I've been told we may need to think of this as "similar to" (shared origins).
    I would think in border counties like Herefordshire you would get much more "Welsh" probably reflecting early ancestry as well as recent, but that's "where does England stop and Wales begin"?
    Difficult to know how accurate terms like "German" and "Scandinavian" are, remembering I had something like 40% Scandinavian on one calculator? John

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    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    I actually struggled to find English samples with no known family history of Irish, Scottish, etc. Hence I felt justified allowing my own and my mother's results in there.
    Makes sense though. England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland are but a stone throw away from one another.


    I've got quite a bit of English ancestry but at the same time possibly a bit too much Irish, Scottish and a little Welsh for your criteria. However, just in case.


    British & Irish - 79.2%
    French & German - 3.5%
    Scandinavian - 0.3%

    Broad NW - 11.7%
    South E. - 1.6%
    Iberian - 1.4%
    Finn - 1.2%
    Ashkenazi 0.4%
    Broad European 0.5%
    North African 0.1%

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  19. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calas View Post
    Makes sense though. England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland are but a stone throw away from one another.


    I've got quite a bit of English ancestry but at the same time possibly a bit too much Irish, Scottish and a little Welsh for your criteria. However, just in case.


    British & Irish - 79.2%
    French & German - 3.5%
    Scandinavian - 0.3%

    Broad NW - 11.7%
    South E. - 1.6%
    Iberian - 1.4%
    Finn - 1.2%
    Ashkenazi 0.4%
    Broad European 0.5%
    North African 0.1%
    A lot of movement from Ireland, Scotland, and Wales, into England, over the past 300 years or so. My own kids are "25% Irish", and a large number of English have an Irish, Welsh, or Scottish ancestor within their known family history. The Irish in particular, moved here in large numbers during the 19th and 20th Centuries:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irish_...entury_onwards
    yDNA: L1b2c L-SK1414 (Oxon/Berks at Generation 9)
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