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Thread: C-M217 in Bengali

  1. #1
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    C-M217 in Bengali

    A friend is testing via yseq - Bengali Muslim (from Sylhet)

    Preliminary results show him to be C-M217 > M532 / L1373 on y full, x (P53.1, M93, P62, F2613) with further downstream markers pending.

    https://www.yseq.net/images/trees/C-M216_tree.pdf

    C-M217 seems to be common in Siberian populations including Mongols and spread into Hazaras. Has anyone come across it in other South Asians? Could this represent a Mongol ancestor?

    I found this article interesting:

    Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge


    " Five of these new markers belong to haplogroup C3 (M386-C3a, M532-C3b, M504-C3b2b, M546-C3b2b, M401-C3b2b1); this haplogroup is characteristic of Mongol expansion and has been described in Hazara"

    Whilst this paper showed no evidence of C-M217 in 77 Indian populations from different backgrounds, I came across this that showed C-M217 (xM93, P39, M86) is present in (6/71) Garo and (27/353) Khasi tribal people in Meghalaya, NE India.

    Austro-Asiatic Tribes of Northeast India Provide Hitherto Missing Genetic Link between South and Southeast Asia

    I haven't across any further subclade identification for these tribal groups, but I'm envisioning that they're not in the same subclade as M532 for the following reasons:

    1. Both P39 (at level of F4015) and M86, which have been excluded in the tribal groups, are part of two of the M532 downstream subclades
    2. M401, part of the third main downstream marker has been identified as a Mongol ‘star cluster’ YSTR haplotype
    3. Vietnamese, Dai, Chinese and one other Bengali sample on yfull, whom I assume would be more closely related to Khasi and other austroasiatics, are actually downstream of a different M217 subclade > F1067.

    Any input would be appreciated!
    Last edited by Reza; 01-07-2017 at 07:35 PM.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    A friend is testing via yseq - Bengali Muslim (from Sylhet)

    Preliminary results show him to be C-M217 > M532 / L1373 on y full, x (P53.1, M93, P62, F2613) with further downstream markers pending.

    https://www.yseq.net/images/trees/C-M216_tree.pdf

    C-M217 seems to be common in Siberian populations including Mongols and spread into Hazaras. Has anyone come across it in other South Asians? Could this represent a Mongol ancestor?

    I found this article interesting:

    Afghan Hindu Kush: Where Eurasian Sub-Continent Gene Flows Converge


    " Five of these new markers belong to haplogroup C3 (M386-C3a, M532-C3b, M504-C3b2b, M546-C3b2b, M401-C3b2b1); this haplogroup is characteristic of Mongol expansion and has been described in Hazara"

    Whilst this paper showed no evidence of C-M217 in 77 Indian populations from different backgrounds, I came across this that showed C-M217 (xM93, P39, M86) is present in (6/71) Garo and (27/353) Khasi tribal people in Meghalaya, NE India.

    Austro-Asiatic Tribes of Northeast India Provide Hitherto Missing Genetic Link between South and Southeast Asia

    I haven't across any further subclade identification for these tribal groups, but I'm envisioning that they're not in the same subclade as M532 for the following reasons:

    1. Both P39 (at level of F4015) and M86, which have been excluded in the tribal groups, are part of two of the M532 downstream subclades
    2. M401, part of the third main downstream marker has been identified as a Mongol ‘star cluster’ YSTR haplotype
    3. Vietnamese, Dai, Chinese and one other Bengali sample on yfull, whom I assume would be more closely related to Khasi and other austroasiatics, are actually downstream of a different M217 subclade > F1067.

    Any input would be appreciated!
    I would say it is eastern Shan rather than Mongol proper.
    In Indic literature mongoloid folk are referred to as bhutia, hoon, kirat, khas, etc. One of these - kirat - does seem similar to the Turko-Mongol kerait.

    There were actual Turko-Mongol chiefs and soldiers present in that region too.

    https://archive.org/details/ferishtashistory01firi

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    I would say it is eastern Shan rather than Mongol proper.
    In Indic literature mongoloid folk are referred to as bhutia, hoon, kirat, khas, etc. One of these - kirat - does seem similar to the Turko-Mongol kerait.

    There were actual Turko-Mongol chiefs and soldiers present in that region too.

    https://archive.org/details/ferishtashistory01firi
    So Tanzil's final results came through as C-M217 > F7264* which is equivalent to L1373*.

    He is negative for sister subclade C-F1067, which has all the southern Chinese, Henanese, Vietnamese and Dai samples (also including the one other Bengali sample).
    He is also negative for the four L1373 downstream subclades: Y11990, F3918, F1918 and M48.

    Given that downstream of L1373 are only central Asians, Siberians and a couple of Europeans (Y11990), and he is a different subclade to the southern Chinese, Dai and Bengali sample, is it more likely that his is indeed a central Asian y haplogroup and not eastern Shan?

    If it were central Asian or Siberian, and not austroasiatic in origin, I guess the next question would be how it got to Bengal?

    It certainly seems to be a rare haplotype with noone registered on yfull.

    If it weren't Turko-Mongol soldiers during the Sultanate period, could be a steppe derived haplogroup?

    Not much information about but some discussion here.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    So Tanzil's final results came through as C-M217 > F7264* which is equivalent to L1373*.

    He is negative for sister subclade C-F1067, which has all the southern Chinese, Henanese, Vietnamese and Dai samples (also including the one other Bengali sample).
    He is also negative for the four L1373 downstream subclades: Y11990, F3918, F1918 and M48.

    Given that downstream of L1373 are only central Asians, Siberians and a couple of Europeans (Y11990), and he is a different subclade to the southern Chinese, Dai and Bengali sample, is it more likely that his is indeed a central Asian y haplogroup and not eastern Shan?

    If it were central Asian or Siberian, and not austroasiatic in origin, I guess the next question would be how it got to Bengal?

    It certainly seems to be a rare haplotype with noone registered on yfull.

    If it weren't Turko-Mongol soldiers during the Sultanate period, could be a steppe derived haplogroup?

    Not much information about but some discussion here.
    Interesting. I would say that he may be part of the first inhabitants of the subcontinent in the C1a,b C2a,b,c split time-frame.
    There appears to be a western affinity to his line like there is for C1a, eg. sample nep-0172.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Interesting. I would say that he may be part of the first inhabitants of the subcontinent in the C1a,b C2a,b,c split time-frame.
    There appears to be a western affinity to his line like there is for C1a, eg. sample nep-0172.
    Sorry, what's the significance of sample nep-0172?

    And how do you interpret the western affinity to the line?

    By one of the first inhabitants, what time line were you referring to?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    Sorry, what's the significance of sample nep-0172?

    And how do you interpret the western affinity to the line?

    By one of the first inhabitants, what time line were you referring to?
    The oldest Y-C samples I believe are all from Europe.
    They are mainly Y-C1a Eg. ~35000ybp GoyetQ116-1 was Y-C1a and mtDNA M - from Belgium.
    C1a is present today in Europe and Japan.
    nep-0172 from Nepal also happens to be C1a (V20).

    One European - ~39000ybp K14 is Y-C1b (F1370) and mtDNA U2. This line is quite common in South Asia and SE.

    That is the time-frame I had in mind - about 45000ybp - when C1 (F3393) and C2 (M217) were splitting. The western affinity is remote - in a sense like that of the nep-0172 sample.

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    Bangladesh United States of America Dravida Nadu Greater Khorasan
    Hi everybody.
    I'm a Bengali from Bangladesh (Rangpur). My y Haplogroup is C-M356 (C1b1a1) and mtHg is M3a2. Any comments? Thnx.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ridhdho View Post
    My y Haplogroup is C-M356 (C1b1a1) and mtHg is M3a2.
    YFull calls this C-K98. But all of the entries on that haplotree are anonymous academic samples, not named customers.

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