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Thread: GED Match and DNA land: Uttar Pradesh,Bihari and Bengali DNA?

  1. #591
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    It is from words noted in trading and other texts.
    Examples:

    Sinda wood or si-in-da-a, si-in-du cf. sindhu

    Meluhha cf. Shatpath Brahman 3.2.1 ... "an eastern text of N. Bihar where it indicates 'to speakin barbarian fashion'. But it has a form closer to ... Middle Indian (MIA): Pali ... milakkha, milakkhu"

    Kapaazum cf. kapaas or cotton

    Arazum cf. arici or husked rice

    Aratta ... cf. https://etcsl.orinst.ox.ac.uk/section1/tr1823.htm, cf. upper riverine regions of the Himalayan rivers of modern Punjab

    The South Russia type burials are further east in the asur region.
    "Many of these tribes, including the Śakya to whom the Buddha belonged, are called asurya in ŚB ... the Sakya and their neighbors, the Malla, Vajji, etc. who are reported in the Påli texts as builders of high grave mounds, such as the one built for the Buddha.273 According to ŚB 12.8.1.5 the “easterners and others(!)” are reported to have round “demonic” graves, some of which may have been excavated at Lauriya in E. Nepal.274 These graves are similar to the kurgan type grave mounds of S. Russia and Central Asia" http://michaelwitzel.org/wp-content/...4/06/canon.pdf

    Lauriya mounds
    Superficially yes, but if you look closer those mounds are quite circular despite the ravages of time, they would have looked like concentric stupas in their hey day. This and the fact Bihar for a very long time was and still is the sanctum sanctorum (Gaya) for Buddhist religion so it looks like a localized influence. Afaik, none of the IIr groups moving into Southern Eurasia had massive Kurgan style burials. Rather you see a significant reduction in burials due to a shift towards new burial practices like decarnation and cremation very likely because of new religious practices forming. Zoroastrians and to a lesser degree Kalash are the only modern IIr populations which practice decarnation.
    Last edited by pegasus; 03-08-2021 at 09:03 AM.

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  3. #592
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biharguy View Post
    His results look similar to my Uncle's results:

    Attachment 43732

    His Y matches too. It might be a relative, considering so far my Uncle's NE Euro has been higher then the Caucasian component, something I haven't seen with myself or other relatives harrapaworld results where it is the opposite. My uncle's ancestor's are from Gilani village, I'm sure paternally this 23 and me user's ancestor's are from there too.

    Since his mtDNA matches mine I'm sure we are also related within 3/4 generations through the female side. Bihari Syed families are extremely endogenous after all.
    For the Reddit result and the one you have posted, I'm seeing the unusual trend of NE-Euro > Caucasian, which I haven't really encountered with UP Syeds.

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  5. #593
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    For the Reddit result and the one you have posted, I'm seeing the unusual trend of NE-Euro > Caucasian, which I haven't really encountered with UP Syeds.
    Culturally there is some link between Bihari and UP Syeds it seems, at least in my family's case.

  6. #594
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Superficially yes, but if you look closer those mounds are quite circular despite the ravages of time, they would have looked like concentric stupas in their hey day. This and the fact Bihar for a very long time was and still is the sanctum sanctorum (Gaya) for Buddhist religion so it looks like a localized influence. Afaik, none of the IIr groups moving into Southern Eurasia had massive Kurgan style burials. Rather you see a significant reduction in burials due to a shift towards new burial practices like decarnation and cremation very likely because of new religious practices forming. Zoroastrians and to a lesser degree Kalash are the only modern IIr populations which practice decarnation.
    No many of these are different - these are considered stup too - but just not of the monumental kind that were built later. The mud type stups vary is size, and are present all over, the ones in Lauriya are just the better studied ones.
    "hundreds of small grass-covered mounds or tumuli, varying from 2 feet to 8 feet in height, are scattered here and there over the undulating grassy plain. These barrows are mostly of a subconical shape, but some few are shaped like a cup or a bowl turned upside down ... There was probably a purpose in this, as water had to be near at hand for the ablutions connected with the cremation of corpses, which was performed near the banks of such water channels, the ashes being afterwards deposited in the mounds close by. [Reports, Archaeological Survey of India, Vols. I, XVI and XXII; Reports, Archaeological Survey, Bengal Circle, 1901-02 and 1904-05]

    The monumental stup types:



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  8. #595
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    No many of these are different - these are considered stup too - but just not of the monumental kind that were built later. The mud type stups vary is size, and are present all over, the ones in Lauriya are just the better studied ones.
    "hundreds of small grass-covered mounds or tumuli, varying from 2 feet to 8 feet in height, are scattered here and there over the undulating grassy plain. These barrows are mostly of a subconical shape, but some few are shaped like a cup or a bowl turned upside down ... There was probably a purpose in this, as water had to be near at hand for the ablutions connected with the cremation of corpses, which was performed near the banks of such water channels, the ashes being afterwards deposited in the mounds close by. [Reports, Archaeological Survey of India, Vols. I, XVI and XXII; Reports, Archaeological Survey, Bengal Circle, 1901-02 and 1904-05]

    The monumental stup types:


    Were any of the Buddha's ashes placed in these stupas?

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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    For the Reddit result and the one you have posted, I'm seeing the unusual trend of NE-Euro > Caucasian, which I haven't really encountered with UP Syeds.


    Yes it's odd. I consider these more typical Brahmin results as in all UP and Bihari Brahmins it's NE-Euro>Caucasian. I'm not sure why it is reversed for UP and many Bihari Syed's. Caucasian may denote more Central Asian and Iranian admixture?
    Last edited by Biharguy; 03-08-2021 at 08:52 PM.

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  11. #597
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Were any of the Buddha's ashes placed in these stupas?
    Yes.

    The ashes were divided. One claimant was from the Swat valley area - his Sak-bandhu Uttarsen.

    His tooth was at Udantpur that was likely destroyed. Another supposedly was/is in Lanka.

    His collection bowl was seen in Kandahar. It is inscribed in Persian as well as Arabic.

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  13. #598
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes.

    His tooth was at Udantpur that was likely destroyed. Another supposedly was/is in Lanka.
    Isn't that in Bihar Sharif?

  14. #599
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Isn't that in Bihar Sharif?
    Yes that is correct, and is most likely the Bihar (Uddandapur Bihar) that gave Bihar its name.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Yes that is correct, and is most likely the Bihar (Uddandapur Bihar) that gave Bihar its name.
    I think most tourists who go there, head straight for Nalanda rather than stop in Bihar Sharif

    I should try to stop there if I ever visit again.

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