Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ... 816171819 LastLast
Results 171 to 180 of 182

Thread: GED Match and DNA land: Uttar Pradesh,Bihari and Bengali DNA?

  1. #171
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,369
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    L1a1
    mtDNA
    M30

    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    I am now beginning to understand that the whole "ancient components", w.r.t South Asians, are just so subjective and flimsy. Anyone can come up with things using "representatives" from those aDNA from other parts of the world that have been analyzed. Look at this aDNA map... the whole South/Central Asia is missing aDNA.

    Attachment 20717

    Btw, those few dots in Tibet-Nepal border, which incidentally is also a dozen or so miles north from my father's village, are all y-haplogroup O and from around 1000BC onwards.
    If O chances are they are SE Asian or Sino-Tibetan - would make sense - Tibetan ancestors coming across

    Yep like you said the environmental conditions of South Asia don't favour DNA preserving

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to bmoney For This Useful Post:

     poi (01-12-2018)

  3. #172
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,379
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Ethnicity
    Punjabi
    Nationality
    Indian
    Y-DNA
    R-M417
    mtDNA
    M3a2

    India Canada Azad Baluchistan Sikh Empire India Punjab Nishan Sahib
    Quote Originally Posted by poi View Post
    I am now beginning to understand that the whole "ancient components", w.r.t South Asians, are just so subjective and flimsy. Anyone can come up with things using "representatives" from those aDNA from other parts of the world that have been analyzed. Look at this aDNA map... the whole South/Central Asia is missing aDNA.

    Attachment 20717

    Btw, those few dots in Tibet-Nepal border, which incidentally is also a dozen or so miles north from my father's village, are all y-haplogroup O and from around 1000BC onwards.
    There are two ways to find the "ASI". Either we find the population that carried it which is close to impossible because of the weather unless some of them lived in himalayas where cold climate can preserve the DNA. The other way would be we find all the populations that contributed to present day SA/SC Asia, and label the unidentified portion as ASI.
    Deg Teg Fateh - Victory to Charity and Arms

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MonkeyDLuffy For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (01-13-2018), parasar (01-12-2018)

  5. #173
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,434

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    There are two ways to find the "ASI". Either we find the population that carried it which is close to impossible because of the weather unless some of them lived in himalayas where cold climate can preserve the DNA. The other way would be we find all the populations that contributed to present day SA/SC Asia, and label the unidentified portion as ASI.
    We have lots of Mesolithic and Neolithic material in South Asia, paleolithic not that much.

    "In India, Mesolithic cultures exhibit high regional diversity as one aspect of
    successful adaptations to such ecologically distinctive habitats as the arid zone of
    the Thar Desert, the humid tropics of Sri Lanka, and the high rainfall, wooded
    regions of eastern India. V. N. Misra (1996) notes that Mesolithic sites in India
    are larger, better preserved, and more numerous than their Paleolithic antecedents,
    in part because they are more recent in time, but also because Holocene
    geomorphic disturbances have been minimal. Knowledge of Mesolithic cultural
    adaptations in India is dramatically enhanced over preceding cultural phases by
    the presence-for the first time in Indian prehistory-of an abundant and informative
    series of human skeletal remains ... The remains of 47 adults are preserved at Damdama."
    https://scholarspace.manoa.hawaii.ed...n2-329-351.pdf

    I am hopeful that as we are able to get usable DNA from African ancient genomes, that the petrous method could work in South Asia too.
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0129102
    "recent studies have confirmed that this bone preserves aDNA extremely well, even when the samples are from warmer climates like Africa [13], the Near East [14], or Oceania [15]."
    http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0170940
    Last edited by parasar; 01-12-2018 at 05:01 PM.

  6. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (01-13-2018), deuterium_1 (01-16-2018), MonkeyDLuffy (01-12-2018), poi (01-12-2018), redifflal (03-28-2018), Reza (01-14-2018)

  7. #174
    Registered Users
    Posts
    951
    Location
    Gonur Tepe

    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Beef was consumed heavily in Early/Pre Hindu society in South asia. Even today beef is only banned among Northern/central/Western Hindus. The Hindus in South enjoy beef without any issue. My theory is the reason why Cow became sacred is because Northern and western Indian society rely heavy on Diary in comparison to other parts of the subcontinent. So the logic was that you drink your mother's milk, so cow is your mother as well. Which was with time absorbed into the Hinduism of North.

    The Northern/Western/Central part of the subcontinent is more at risk for famine because of dry weather, so milk and milk products allowed to survive in those situations. Hence people became more attached to the cows and started considering them Sacred.


    Also LOL at the comments on those articles, the radical hindu and akhand bharat warriors totally deny any foreign contribution to the subcontinent. Yea the title Aryan theory sound pre historic but you can't deny their obvious impact on genetics of present day South Asians.
    I would say beef was definitely consumed by Rig Vedic Aryans, the IVC people as well but they seem to have eaten buffalo meat, which makes sense as Zebus/Auroch type cattle are not suitable really for consumption, its gamey and not pleasant compared to Taurine breeds. Beef consumption seemed to fall out of favor with the spread of Vaishnite cultures in late Iron Age/ early antiquity, also with the spread of Jainism and Buddhism. The main protein source was largely goats and chickens especially chickens. The IVC introduced chicken to the world, first by domesticating jungle fowl into chickens and then exporting them to Mesopotamia and Egypt along with water buffalo. Water buffalos are still the main source of dairy in Iraq and Egypt even today.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to pegasus For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (01-18-2018), Soultalker5 (03-15-2018)

  9. #175
    Registered Users
    Posts
    951
    Location
    Gonur Tepe

    Quote Originally Posted by surbakhunWeesste View Post
    [/B]

    Central Asia/West Asia periphery, Gathas are allegedly the spoken words of Zarathustra.

    Cattle are important in Zoroastrianism because the people follow the laws of nature/evolution...they were pastoral-nomads if you will. Read the Vedidad to understand the laws.

    For starters, Vedidad literally means the laws against the Daevas(gods in the vedas).

    Ashura/Ahura = Demons in Hinduism
    Daevas = Demons in Zoroastrianism
    Yes there was a big ideological schism between the Iranics and the Indo Aryans, as well a genetic one. Zoroastrianism has more Near Eastern influences , while Rig Vedic Hinduism seems to have preserved some Steppe warrior culture rituals which vanish later. Central hall marks which link Zoroastrianism , Vedic Hinduism ,as well as the Kalash religion, are the central importance of fire, flame and purity.
    Interesting thing about Zoroastrianism they introduced Monotheist concepts (ie Ahura Mazda) to the Near East which were absorbed by Judaism and by later Abrahamic religions ( Christianity, Islam) via Achaemenid Persia.

  10. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to pegasus For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (01-18-2018), MonkeyDLuffy (01-18-2018), Soultalker5 (03-15-2018)

  11. #176
    Registered Users
    Posts
    266
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Bengali
    Y-DNA
    R2A2 (R-P267)
    mtDNA
    M52A

    On beef and contemporary Hinduism, it really is irrelevant who did what in Vedic era. Hinduism is a founderless religion, true. But it is also always evolving, with no laws of blasphemy and new gurus and darshanas developing every century. All kinds of talk of "looking back at Vedic times" as a stick to beat current practises is in line with (and totally irrelevant to Dharmic traditions) Abrahamic revivalists ever seeking for the original way of Christ or Muhammad as the pristine pure time. Hinduism doesn't operate that way and neither is there a concept of original sin, which is woven into such look backs. Beyond just the intellectual curiosity, it has zero relevance in the here and now.
    In the here and now, the consumption of beef and public slaughter of cows was routinely used by Islamist tyrants of medieval era as an intimidation tactic over the conquered Hindus (and conversely, cow dung was used as a reverse humiliation tactic when power at ground level would shift). Even as recently as the partition violence and even later in Kashmir valley and Bangladesh, the forced consumption of beef is a method for admitting conversion out of a Hindu to Islam. Yes, theologically these things make zero sense because how can anyone be forced into a different belief system against their will, but at the ground level this is how it operates.
    As a matter of fact, in the 99% of time when there is no communal flare up, the social relations dictate that say it is Eid and Muslims have invited Hindus over for dinner, they will be extremely courteous and point out which meat is mutton and which is beef. I have gone to such gatherings and never found it in my heart to say I don't have an issue with eating beef. For Muslims, feeding beef to a Hindu is a massive act of aggression, and as such such things only happen when social relations break down.
    It is quite a stretch to say Hindus of South eat beef lol. Kerala is a small state in south India and they've had a different evolution over last fifty years due to communist rule. As it is Kerala is also approaching under 50% Hindu demographics. Urban Bengali Hindus like myself with zero interaction at ground level with Muslims also eat beef. But you go out into the countryside where Hindus and Muslims live side by side, whether one consumes beef or not is the ONLY demarcation of identity. Because even spiritually the Hindus and Muslims there are devotees of the same sadhus/pirs. Being Hindu or being Muslim in the grassroots level in subcontinent isn't about being a polytheist vs monotheist. It is whether your name is of Arabic/Farsi derivation or local. As a result being a Muslim is less theological but more like a caste/clan identity in itself. And it is assumed that different castes have different customs anyway, so it is better to see the beef issue as a caste/tribe/clan thing rather than a theological thing, since Hindu Muslim difference on the ground isn't theological but rather cultural.
    Last edited by redifflal; 01-18-2018 at 04:00 PM.

  12. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to redifflal For This Useful Post:

     ash (03-08-2018), bmoney (01-18-2018), deuterium_1 (03-17-2018), Soultalker5 (03-15-2018)

  13. #177
    Registered Users
    Posts
    100
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Indian
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA
    O

    India Pakistan United Kingdom
    Hi all

    These are the results of one of my cousins, his maternal line is related to me but his paternal line is from Bulandshahr in Western UP.

    His MDLP K16 Results:

    Amerindian -
    Ancestor 0.57
    Steppe 7.94
    Indian 50.91
    Arctic 0.63
    Australian 2.15
    Caucasian 18.44
    EastAfrican -
    NorthEastEuropean 5.91
    NearEast 0.23
    Neolithic 1.75
    NorthAfrican 0.44
    Oceanic -
    Siberian 2.51
    SouthEastAsian 8.52
    Subsaharian -

  14. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to deuterium_1 For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (03-17-2018), MonkeyDLuffy (03-17-2018)

  15. #178
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,369
    Sex
    Y-DNA
    L1a1
    mtDNA
    M30

    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Hi all

    These are the results of one of my cousins, his maternal line is related to me but his paternal line is from Bulandshahr in Western UP.

    His MDLP K16 Results:

    Amerindian -
    Ancestor 0.57
    Steppe 7.94
    Indian 50.91
    Arctic 0.63
    Australian 2.15
    Caucasian 18.44
    EastAfrican -
    NorthEastEuropean 5.91
    NearEast 0.23
    Neolithic 1.75
    NorthAfrican 0.44
    Oceanic -
    Siberian 2.51
    SouthEastAsian 8.52
    Subsaharian -
    Could you post his Harappa

  16. The Following User Says Thank You to bmoney For This Useful Post:

     deuterium_1 (03-17-2018)

  17. #179
    Registered Users
    Posts
    100
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Indian
    Nationality
    British
    Y-DNA
    O

    India Pakistan United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by bmoney View Post
    Could you post his Harappa
    His Harappa results are:

    S-Indian 40.98
    Baloch 30.34
    Caucasian 10.70
    NE-Euro 8.29
    SE-Asian 1.28
    Siberian 1.77
    NE-Asian 1.49
    Papuan 0.86
    American 0.48
    Beringian 0.10
    Mediterranean 1.68
    SW-Asian 2.04
    San -
    E-African -
    Pygmy -
    W-African -


    His mtDNA haplogroup is M41 and his Y-DNA is R2.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to deuterium_1 For This Useful Post:

     redifflal (03-28-2018)

  19. #180
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,379
    Sex
    Location
    Canada
    Ethnicity
    Punjabi
    Nationality
    Indian
    Y-DNA
    R-M417
    mtDNA
    M3a2

    India Canada Azad Baluchistan Sikh Empire India Punjab Nishan Sahib
    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    His Harappa results are:

    S-Indian 40.98
    Baloch 30.34
    Caucasian 10.70
    NE-Euro 8.29
    SE-Asian 1.28
    Siberian 1.77
    NE-Asian 1.49
    Papuan 0.86
    American 0.48
    Beringian 0.10
    Mediterranean 1.68
    SW-Asian 2.04
    San -
    E-African -
    Pygmy -
    W-African -


    His mtDNA haplogroup is M41 and his Y-DNA is R2.
    Seems very generic for UP Muslim but he might have a minor very diluted west asian mix. Post his oracles, there might be a hint there.
    Deg Teg Fateh - Victory to Charity and Arms

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MonkeyDLuffy For This Useful Post:

     bmoney (03-17-2018), deuterium_1 (03-17-2018), redifflal (03-28-2018)

Page 18 of 19 FirstFirst ... 816171819 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. C-M217 in Bengali
    By Reza in forum C
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 04-23-2018, 08:29 AM
  2. Bengali results
    By Reza in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 73
    Last Post: 02-05-2018, 01:55 AM
  3. Bengali...?
    By Reza in forum Hindi
    Replies: 83
    Last Post: 04-10-2017, 10:31 PM
  4. Replies: 31
    Last Post: 05-12-2015, 09:35 PM
  5. Hoping for a Y-DNA Match from a Family Finder Match
    By rms2 in forum Stevens/Stephens Surname Project
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 10-31-2014, 03:30 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •