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Thread: GED Match and DNA land: Uttar Pradesh,Bihari and Bengali DNA?

  1. #561
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raza94 View Post
    From what I have read online, if Mir is used first then it is Sayyid if after then it something else like maybe Qureishi that subzero was saying.
    My great grandmother's stepmother was descended from Mir Ekram Ali of Kara Manikpur who belonged to Gardezi Sadaat.

    There is a village in Azamgarh district called Sarai Miri which was founded by a prominent Syed family in the area.My khalujan used to go hunting with his father there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raza94 View Post
    As far as I know Makhdum is used by shrine families who are of Sayyid descent. As for the Shah point I never knew why I only saw it mostly used in Punjab and Sindh but the Baniya thing makes sense, I did not realize how many Hindus also used Shah but then again MDL and I have seen Hindus use Gillani so who knows. My family uses Shah as well, have you ever come across Indian Sayyids using Shah?
    Hindus named Gillani sounds unusual. Perhaps a married name, or one of those people who copied this name from Afghans, or some other reason? Have you got any links for Hindus named Gillani?

    Shah name among Hindus in Gujarat, Rajasthan appears to be derived from word "sah".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_(...d%20for%20King.
    History
    In the Gujarat and Rajasthan region, the name 'Shah' may be derived from Gujarati sah meaning "merchant" (from Sanskrit sadhu meaning "honest, good") and Prakrit Sahu, while the actual spelling "Shah" was popularized by the Persian word for King. As a result, especially in Western culture, use of the spelling "Shah" has become far more pronounced than the other variants.[3] The word Sadhu/Sahu is also separately used to indicate a holy man, such as a Jain monk (see Namokar Mantra). The Indian surnames "Shah" and "Sahu" are variants of one another which have evolved from the word "sah" over time. Another variant is Sheth.

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  5. #563
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raza94 View Post
    As far as I know Makhdum is used by shrine families who are of Sayyid descent. As for the Shah point I never knew why I only saw it mostly used in Punjab and Sindh but the Baniya thing makes sense, I did not realize how many Hindus also used Shah but then again MDL and I have seen Hindus use Gillani so who knows. My family uses Shah as well, have you ever come across Indian Sayyids using Shah?
    I've personally seen East punjabi shajrah's that do not have anything to do with a shrine. I saw it in some Hoshiarpuri Bukhari families. Same with the Khalifa family of Patiala Though the Khalifa family had origins as pirs which was quite common in East Punjab (for landowning sayyid families to be Pirs or Qazis or etc). Prehaps it depends on the Area or prehaps used by landowning or more influential families. Not sure on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raza94 View Post
    From what I have read online, if Mir is used first then it is Sayyid if after then it something else like maybe Qureishi that subzero was saying.
    I dont think thats true. For example the Talpur royal family members are addressed as Sahibzada Mir (name). And they are Balochis. Plus many of the old turani chiefs used Mir (name) beg and retained it while integrating into the mughal system, and in that region they continued to use it. Mir Murad Beg comes to mind of Uzbekistan, a enemy of Dost Muhammad Khan. Plus isn't the tv presenter Hamid Mir a sayyid ?

    Mirza was also sometimes used by sayyids but now its completely out of vogue.

    A lot depends on the time frame. I personally know an Iraqi Jilani, who's associated with the Qadari order. Who said to me that in the olden days Fatimids did not use the title Sayyid. Rather they would just use Hashimi. He knew from personal lore and also by looking at manuscripts. Also if you read manucci on India it seems that in the older days, sayyid wasn't used for sayyids. Rather they were called Shaikhzadas. I also personally know that azeris still use mirza and mir/amir a lot for sayyids.

    edit: I mean to say they used to use the al hashimi surname after their name
    Last edited by royaljoker; 03-06-2021 at 07:48 PM.

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  7. #564
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    Quote Originally Posted by laltota View Post
    Hindus named Gillani sounds unusual. Perhaps a married name, or one of those people who copied this name from Afghans, or some other reason? Have you got any links for Hindus named Gillani?

    Shah name among Hindus in Gujarat, Rajasthan appears to be derived from word "sah".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_(...d%20for%20King.
    History
    In the Gujarat and Rajasthan region, the name 'Shah' may be derived from Gujarati sah meaning "merchant" (from Sanskrit sadhu meaning "honest, good") and Prakrit Sahu, while the actual spelling "Shah" was popularized by the Persian word for King. As a result, especially in Western culture, use of the spelling "Shah" has become far more pronounced than the other variants.[3] The word Sadhu/Sahu is also separately used to indicate a holy man, such as a Jain monk (see Namokar Mantra). The Indian surnames "Shah" and "Sahu" are variants of one another which have evolved from the word "sah" over time. Another variant is Sheth.
    Via Google, I found two people, who I assume are Hindus, using "Gilani" as last name.
    One guy is named Ravi Gilani.
    https://twitter.com/ravigilani?lang=en

    Other is named Banjamin Gilani. It even says he is of "Iran origin", but I really doubt it.
    https://nettv4u.com/celebrity/hindi/...enjamin-gilani
    Benjamin Gilani is a veteran Indian actor, who has worked in India films, TV serials, and plays. Benjamin was born in Dhariwal town of Gurdaspur district in Punjab on 20 November 1946. He has mastered theatre before getting into Indian cinema. Benjamin is of Iran origin as his name suggests (Gilani). His ancestors had migrated from Gilan (Iran) to Kashmir. Benjamin's grandfather and his brother later settled in Jagraon near Ludhiana.

    I think both are probably Kashmiri Pandits using Gilani similar to how some use Bamzai which I posted before.
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post649066
    Last edited by laltota; 03-06-2021 at 09:12 PM.

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  9. #565
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    Quote Originally Posted by laltota View Post
    Hindus named Gillani sounds unusual. Perhaps a married name, or one of those people who copied this name from Afghans, or some other reason? Have you got any links for Hindus named Gillani?

    Shah name among Hindus in Gujarat, Rajasthan appears to be derived from word "sah".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_(...d%20for%20King.
    History
    In the Gujarat and Rajasthan region, the name 'Shah' may be derived from Gujarati sah meaning "merchant" (from Sanskrit sadhu meaning "honest, good") and Prakrit Sahu, while the actual spelling "Shah" was popularized by the Persian word for King. As a result, especially in Western culture, use of the spelling "Shah" has become far more pronounced than the other variants.[3] The word Sadhu/Sahu is also separately used to indicate a holy man, such as a Jain monk (see Namokar Mantra). The Indian surnames "Shah" and "Sahu" are variants of one another which have evolved from the word "sah" over time. Another variant is Sheth.
    Gilani seems to be used by Sindhi Hindus. We searched on Facebook, and found Hindus with Gilani surname, and a quick look at their profile shows they're Sindhi Hindus.

    It probably is pronounced like "Jilani", which seems to be an actual Sindhi surname.
    Last edited by MonkeyDLuffy; 03-06-2021 at 09:54 PM.

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  11. #566
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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    Gilani seems to be used by Sindhi Hindus. We searched on Facebook, and found Hindus with Gilani surname, and a quick look at their profile shows they're Sindhi Hindus.

    It probably is pronounced like "Jilani", which seems to be an actual Sindhi surname.
    This is a list of Sindhi Hindu (and Sikh) last names. It has Galani and Gellani. I am guessing these are the same, and being spelled as Jilani / Gilani / Gillani like you said.
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/sindh...2562363482078/

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  13. #567
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    Quote Originally Posted by laltota View Post
    This is a list of Sindhi Hindu (and Sikh) last names. It has Galani and Gellani. I am guessing these are the same, and being spelled as Jilani / Gilani / Gillani like you said.
    https://www.facebook.com/notes/sindh...2562363482078/
    Guy who made the list has name Chotraney but in his list it is Chotrani

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    Quote Originally Posted by laltota View Post
    Hindus named Gillani sounds unusual. Perhaps a married name, or one of those people who copied this name from Afghans, or some other reason? Have you got any links for Hindus named Gillani?

    Shah name among Hindus in Gujarat, Rajasthan appears to be derived from word "sah".
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shah_(...d%20for%20King.
    History
    In the Gujarat and Rajasthan region, the name 'Shah' may be derived from Gujarati sah meaning "merchant" (from Sanskrit sadhu meaning "honest, good") and Prakrit Sahu, while the actual spelling "Shah" was popularized by the Persian word for King. As a result, especially in Western culture, use of the spelling "Shah" has become far more pronounced than the other variants.[3] The word Sadhu/Sahu is also separately used to indicate a holy man, such as a Jain monk (see Namokar Mantra). The Indian surnames "Shah" and "Sahu" are variants of one another which have evolved from the word "sah" over time. Another variant is Sheth.
    I think word sadhu/siddha have nothing to do with shah, in Punjabi it means rich, word shah is even used for wood that is of dark color, and also ink is called siahi for it's richness in color for the same reason.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jatt1 View Post
    I think word sadhu/siddha have nothing to do with shah, in Punjabi it means rich, word shah is even used for wood that is of dark color, and also ink is called siahi for it's richness in color for the same reason.
    The word for black in farsi is siyah, hence siyahi for ink. Nothing to do with richness.

    Rest regarding shah in punjabi, it is farsi in origin, and got absorbed. Shah means king, but we use it for someone rich in Punjabi as you said "Tu vdda shaah lggeya??!". My cousin's in-laws were in money landing business, their family is called "Shah" by locals.
    Last edited by MonkeyDLuffy; 03-07-2021 at 01:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MonkeyDLuffy View Post
    The word for black in farsi is siyah, hence siyahi for ink. Nothing to do with richness.

    Rest regarding shah in punjabi, it is farsi in origin, and got absorbed. Shah means king, but we use it for someone rich in Punjabi as you said "Tu vdda shaah lggeya??!". My cousin's in-laws were in money landing business, their family is called "Shah" by locals.
    I think that is correct - see eg the Siyaposh Kafir.

    Shah though is pretty old:
    Dēvaputra-Shāhi-Shāhānushāhi - Samudrgupt's Allahabad inscription

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