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Thread: GED Match and DNA land: Uttar Pradesh,Bihari and Bengali DNA?

  1. #611
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    That is indeed true, but intermarriage wasn't such an issue in Early Islam, many of the Shia Imams had non-Arab wives including Imam Hossein who married Shahrbanu (most likely a Sindhi rather than a Sasanian Persian princess).
    It's really underrated how the Islamic expansion set off a "mini-globalization".

    I'm even seeing in the Iraq project on FTDNA for example people with surnames like Al-Hindi or Al-Hendawi with paternal H haplogroups.

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  3. #612
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    Quote Originally Posted by subzero85 View Post
    It's really underrated how the Islamic expansion set off a "mini-globalization".

    I'm even seeing in the Iraq project on FTDNA for example people with surnames like Al-Hindi or Al-Hendawi with paternal H haplogroups.
    Indeed

    One of my cousins is married to a Shirazi to Lahore, he is also apparently a Syed too.

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  5. #613
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    This is a rare Harikela coin from my collection struck in AD 630-750.Obverse has a Stylized Recumbent Humped bull seated left with two horns and ears, Hump and mouth are clearly visible, no garland around the neck and tail pointing upward with legend above “Harikela”. Reverse shows bold ornate traditional Shrivatsa (Trident-head temple / tripartite) Symbol surrounded by beaded garlands with a with long central shaft / pole, crescent, moon & sun above all within decorative border.

    Apparently this coin has Brahmi script but perhaps in Bengal, it was beginning to evolve into Proto-Bengali script during this period?



    Harikela in relation to other kingdoms in Bengal:

    Last edited by deuterium_1; 03-19-2021 at 11:54 PM.

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  7. #614
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    Great coin... Harikela encompassed all of Sylhet and adjacent areas in Eastern Bengal.

    The script has some features reminiscent of the Gupta (post Brahmi) script but your coin uses a later form of vowel diacritics - a i-kar with the i inscribed before the 'ra' - rather than a superscript I thought was used in Gupta script.

    So could be either a regional difference or a transition to a later script.

    This coin below that also reads Harikela but in reverse (I think).

    https://www.mintageworld.com/media/d...n-of-harikela/
    Paternal; Y-DNA: R1a-L657> Y6> Y11> Y920*
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  9. #615
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    This is a rare Harikela coin from my collection struck in AD 630-750.Obverse has a Stylized Recumbent Humped bull seated left with two horns and ears, Hump and mouth are clearly visible, no garland around the neck and tail pointing upward with legend above “Harikela”. Reverse shows bold ornate traditional Shrivatsa (Trident-head temple / tripartite) Symbol surrounded by beaded garlands with a with long central shaft / pole, crescent, moon & sun above all within decorative border.

    Apparently this coin has Brahmi script but perhaps in Bengal, it was beginning to evolve into Proto-Bengali script during this period?


    ...
    Very good shape.
    हरिकेल - harikel - is pretty readable.

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  11. #616
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reza View Post
    Great coin... Harikela encompassed all of Sylhet and adjacent areas in Eastern Bengal.

    The script has some features reminiscent of the Gupta (post Brahmi) script but your coin uses a later form of vowel diacritics - a i-kar with the i inscribed before the 'ra' - rather than a superscript I thought was used in Gupta script.

    So could be either a regional difference or a transition to a later script.

    This coin below that also reads Harikela but in reverse (I think).

    https://www.mintageworld.com/media/d...n-of-harikela/
    Did the Harikelas leave any remains of buildings in Sylhet?

    Didn't Gupta script evolve into Bengali script?

    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Very good shape.
    हरिकेल - harikel - is pretty readable.
    So it is in Eastern Gupta script then?
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 03-21-2021 at 11:34 AM.

  12. #617
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    Hi

    I did some more research on Syed Mohammad Sami Ahmad's brother-in-laws.According to the 1911 census at least two of them were stationed in Milton Barracks in Gravesend, Kent which meant that they would have met my great great granduncle frequently as well as their sister Elvina Minnie Sami

    The eldest brother-in-law George James Mateer died in WW1 towards the end of the Battle of the Somme in October 1916. He is buried in Thiepval, France. He was listed as missing but his grave memorial matches what is known about his parents who lived in Union Place, Praed Street, Paddington, London.

    The middle brother-in-law, John Alfred Mateer was shot in the right thigh during the Battle of Mons on 23rd August 1914 which was the first military engagement for the British army in WW1. He was captured in Thulin, Belgium and was transferred to Doberitz PoW camp near Potsdam,Brandenburg, German Empire, where he lived in squalid conditions as the British naval blockade took its toll on Germany. He was later made to work in a factory and he smashed his foot in a painful work accident. He was freed after the November Armistice in 1918.He is listed as suffering from PTSD symptoms in his pension report as did millions of returning soldiers.

    The youngest brother-in-law Walter Edwin Mateer served in the Royal Army Service Corps (R.A.S.C) and appears to have survived WW1.

    This must have all been very stressful for Elvina Minnie Sami while she was in India with her husband and children. It may explain why after the death of her husband, she went back to support her family in the UK as they endured much grief too after WW1.
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 04-20-2021 at 11:42 AM.

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  14. #618
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    Some data on affected districts of Bengal during the Bengal famine of 1943, my dadi remembered it as the Bengali side of my family is from Howrah district which was severely affected. My ancestral village in Bengal is Ghorada in Amta I Block of Howrah district:

    https://www.census2011.co.in/data/vi...st-bengal.html



    https://etheses.lse.ac.uk/1279/1/U062489.pdf









    My dada worked in Kolkata at the time, I wonder what he saw.

    Unfortunately he died before I was born.


    https://etheses.lse.ac.uk/1279/1/U062489.pdf
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 05-05-2021 at 03:44 PM.

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  16. #619
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    This is a recent addition to my collection.



    INDIA.Post Mauryan.Kindom of AYODHYA.King Satyamitra.circa 3rd cent AD.AE.Unit.( 7.46g, 17.1mm, 2h ).

    Humped back bull standing left before sacrificial spear, legend in exergue.
    Reverse.Peacock left standing before Palm tree.
    Ref:MACW 4761, Pierper.1012.
    About very fine, surface light porosity.

    Ex:Baldwins London sale 9th October 2001, part lot 1069.


    Similar coins of this type have been found not far from Harihans, Siwan, Bihar

    #040 Laghusa (Gopalganj, Saran District, Bihar). A hoard of several hundred Kusana copper coins mixed with Bull and Cock type of Ayodhya. Some were deposited in Patna museum between 1963 and 1972.
    Gupta, 1976

    http://www.kushan.org/sources/coin/copperhoards.htm

    This makes it reasonable to assume that Siwan was under the influence of the Kosalas, Mauryans, Kushans and Ayodhya in antiquity. This raises the possibility that the hoard of silver coins which my nana's nana found in Harihans were Gupta silver drachmas which would make sense considering that Ayodhya (it seems that Siwan was dependent on this city) was under Gupta rule. I really wish that I could have seen the coins in person, I have tried to ask around as it may provide more historical context to my ancestral village.
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 05-06-2021 at 10:35 AM.

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