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Thread: GED Match and DNA land: Uttar Pradesh,Bihari and Bengali DNA?

  1. #481
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    Hi all

    I also found out that two brother-in-laws of Syed Mohammad Sami served in the First World War. One was John Alfred Mateer whose next of kin address is listed in Paddington which is where his sister was from and also where the family would later live after the war which makes it a convincing match. Apparently he was wounded and captured on the Western Front on 5th November 1914. It was a month or so before Syed Mohammad Sami set out to India with his wife and children on the SS Osterley on 18th December 1914 to Colombo then onwards probably to Calcutta where they took a train to Benares, it must have been a stressful time for the family.

    Another brother-in-law was Walter Mateer who served in the First World War with several regiments:

    Duke of Cornwall's Light Infantry
    Royal Irish Regiment
    Royal Irish Fusiliers
    Army Service Corps
    Last edited by deuterium_1; 11-04-2020 at 09:25 AM.

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  3. #482
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    This Kushan gold dinar of Huvishka was apparently found between Patna and Nalanda which makes sense considering that the area was under Kushan influence. Huvishka is remembered primarily for consolidating the power of the Kushan empire after the rule of his father, Kanishka the Great:


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  5. #483
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    This Kushan gold dinar of Huvishka was apparently found between Patna and Nalanda which makes sense considering that the area was under Kushan influence. Huvishka is remembered primarily for consolidating the power of the Kushan empire after the rule of his father, Kanishka the Great:

    LOL they even got the head deformation right on the coin. It must have looked odd and bizarre to the locals then as it would be to modern reactions today.

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  7. #484
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    LOL they even got the head deformation right on the coin. It must have looked odd and bizarre to the locals then as it would be to modern reactions today.
    Why did they do it?

    Also I wonder if this coin was a devotional offering? Nalanda is a Buddhist site and I am sure that it was flourishing in Kushan times.

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  9. #485
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    What are the most prominent and relevant mid-castes in UP and Bihar, and percentage wise how much of the population do they make up?

  10. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by Samand View Post
    What are the most prominent and relevant mid-castes in UP and Bihar, and percentage wise how much of the population do they make up?
    I guess Bhumihar might be one of them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Why did they do it?

    Also I wonder if this coin was a devotional offering? Nalanda is a Buddhist site and I am sure that it was flourishing in Kushan times.
    Probably as a sign of being a warrior, when this ritual came through is a good question, since BA Indo Iranians did not have deformed crania.

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  13. #488
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    Quote Originally Posted by deuterium_1 View Post
    Why did they do it?

    Also I wonder if this coin was a devotional offering? Nalanda is a Buddhist site and I am sure that it was flourishing in Kushan times.
    And the European Hoon and Alani did it too.

    The World of the Huns
    O. Maenchen-Helfen
    "In 1929 I lived for months in the tents of Turkish-speaking nomads in northwestern Mongolia, where the clash between "higher civilization," represented by Tibetan Lamaism, and the "primitive" beliefs of the Turks was strikingly visible. In Kashmir, at Harwan, I marveled at the artificially deformed skulls on the stamped tiles of Kushan times, those skulls that had impressed me so much when I first saw them in the museum in Vienna and that I had measured as a student. In Nepal I had another chance to see the merging of different civilizations in a borderland. I spent many days in the museum at Minusinsk in southern Siberia studying the "Scythian" bronze plaques and cauldrons. In Kabul I stood in awe before the inscription from Surkh Kotal: it brought back to me the problems of the barbarians at China's border about which I had written a good deal in previous years. Attila and his avatars have been haunting me as far back as I can recall ...
    The prominent Huns, or, to be more cautious, some of them, cremated their dead ..."


    Also:
    "In the Carpathian Basin all artificially deformed skulls are dated to the late Iron Age, especially to the early Migration Period. The authors examined 9 artificially deformed skulls from the Hun-Germanic Period (5th–6th century ad) excavated from two cemeteries in the northeastern part of the Great Hungarian Plain (Hungary) ... However, it has been pointed out that the custom of artificial cranial deformation appeared with all these peoples; that is, with the Sarmatian, Alan, Gothic, Gepidic, and Hun populations equally ...
    The frequent appearance of artificial cranial deformation in Europe and in the Carpathian Basin can be attributed to the movements of the Huns, who flowed into Europe in the 4th–5th century. As discussed above, peoples of different (mainly Germanic) origin were pushed westward by the Huns, and these populations may already have adopted the custom of cranial deformation from the Huns as early as the 2nd–3rd century. Archeologists have problems assigning graves and skeletons to the Huns for several reasons. On the one hand, except for the gravesites of the aristocracy, which abounded with grave goods, the commoners' graves were poorly or not furnished. On the other hand, the custom of cremation burial was also widely applied by all these populations. Just as the graves of the Huns can rarely be distinguished from the graves of the Gepids or Ostrogoths, neither can the Hun Period be marked off from the Germanic Era. That is why the two eras are jointly defined as the Hun-Germanic Period. However, the custom of artificial cranial deformation survived among the Germanic populations remaining in the area of the Avar Empire until the early 7th century ...

    The data that are known suggest that certain elements of the Hun population came into contact with Alan-Turkish peoples, which were in the habit of performing cranial deformation in the area of the present-day Tajikistan.23 Thus, the Huns can only be considered to be the transmitters and not the developers of this tradition. The custom of intentional head shaping was actually a “fashion wave” in the Eurasian steppes, which spread to Central and Western Europe ...

    The earliest cases of artificial cranial modification in Eurasia date from the Bronze Age (ca. 2000–1000 bc), practiced by peoples of the “Catacomb” culture and by those of southern Turkmenistan.34,38 Nevertheless, this custom disappeared in both of these regions and became common again among the nomadic tribes and herdsmen of the Eurasian steppes in the early Iron Age (ca. 700–500 bc), first reappearing at the delta of the River Syr Darya ...


    Map showing the spread of the custom of cranial deformation from Central Asia to Central and Western Europe, in 6 groups or phases. I = Central Asian group; II = Caucasus, Volga region, and Kalmykia steppe group; III = Danube Basin group; IV = Middle Germanic group; V = South and Southwest Germanic group; VI = Rhone group.
    https://thejns.org/focus/view/journa...rticle-pE1.xml

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  15. #489
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    Quote Originally Posted by pegasus View Post
    Probably as a sign of being a warrior, when this ritual came through is a good question, since BA Indo Iranians did not have deformed crania.
    The Xiongnu who had driven them west practiced it too I think?

    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    And the European Hoon and Alani did it too.

    The World of the Huns
    O. Maenchen-Helfen
    "In 1929 I lived for months in the tents of Turkish-speaking nomads in northwestern Mongolia, where the clash between "higher civilization," represented by Tibetan Lamaism, and the "primitive" beliefs of the Turks was strikingly visible. In Kashmir, at Harwan, I marveled at the artificially deformed skulls on the stamped tiles of Kushan times, those skulls that had impressed me so much when I first saw them in the museum in Vienna and that I had measured as a student. In Nepal I had another chance to see the merging of different civilizations in a borderland. I spent many days in the museum at Minusinsk in southern Siberia studying the "Scythian" bronze plaques and cauldrons. In Kabul I stood in awe before the inscription from Surkh Kotal: it brought back to me the problems of the barbarians at China's border about which I had written a good deal in previous years. Attila and his avatars have been haunting me as far back as I can recall ...
    The prominent Huns, or, to be more cautious, some of them, cremated their dead ..."


    Also:
    "In the Carpathian Basin all artificially deformed skulls are dated to the late Iron Age, especially to the early Migration Period. The authors examined 9 artificially deformed skulls from the Hun-Germanic Period (5th–6th century ad) excavated from two cemeteries in the northeastern part of the Great Hungarian Plain (Hungary) ... However, it has been pointed out that the custom of artificial cranial deformation appeared with all these peoples; that is, with the Sarmatian, Alan, Gothic, Gepidic, and Hun populations equally ...
    The frequent appearance of artificial cranial deformation in Europe and in the Carpathian Basin can be attributed to the movements of the Huns, who flowed into Europe in the 4th–5th century. As discussed above, peoples of different (mainly Germanic) origin were pushed westward by the Huns, and these populations may already have adopted the custom of cranial deformation from the Huns as early as the 2nd–3rd century. Archeologists have problems assigning graves and skeletons to the Huns for several reasons. On the one hand, except for the gravesites of the aristocracy, which abounded with grave goods, the commoners' graves were poorly or not furnished. On the other hand, the custom of cremation burial was also widely applied by all these populations. Just as the graves of the Huns can rarely be distinguished from the graves of the Gepids or Ostrogoths, neither can the Hun Period be marked off from the Germanic Era. That is why the two eras are jointly defined as the Hun-Germanic Period. However, the custom of artificial cranial deformation survived among the Germanic populations remaining in the area of the Avar Empire until the early 7th century ...

    The data that are known suggest that certain elements of the Hun population came into contact with Alan-Turkish peoples, which were in the habit of performing cranial deformation in the area of the present-day Tajikistan.23 Thus, the Huns can only be considered to be the transmitters and not the developers of this tradition. The custom of intentional head shaping was actually a “fashion wave” in the Eurasian steppes, which spread to Central and Western Europe ...

    The earliest cases of artificial cranial modification in Eurasia date from the Bronze Age (ca. 2000–1000 bc), practiced by peoples of the “Catacomb” culture and by those of southern Turkmenistan.34,38 Nevertheless, this custom disappeared in both of these regions and became common again among the nomadic tribes and herdsmen of the Eurasian steppes in the early Iron Age (ca. 700–500 bc), first reappearing at the delta of the River Syr Darya ...


    Map showing the spread of the custom of cranial deformation from Central Asia to Central and Western Europe, in 6 groups or phases. I = Central Asian group; II = Caucasus, Volga region, and Kalmykia steppe group; III = Danube Basin group; IV = Middle Germanic group; V = South and Southwest Germanic group; VI = Rhone group.
    https://thejns.org/focus/view/journa...rticle-pE1.xml
    The Alchon Huns practiced head binding too I think

  16. #490
    Many peoples are familiar with artificial cranial deformity, but not many can speak of a tradition of about 7,000 years as in Thrace.
    The map is misleading, aiming to give an east-west direction of distribution.
    Globally, artificial cranial deformity is too common to be useful in establishing ethnicity.
    In Thrace this is observed from the Neolithic, so I have doubts about the adequacy of the map. As you know, we have such deformations in Egypt as well.
    “In some of the necropolises of our lands dated various epochs (from the Neolithic period till late Middle Ages) skulls with artificial deformation were found” –Y.Al. Yordanov, Anthropologisms, Academia Litterarum Bulgarica Institutum Studiorum Thracorum, In honorem Annorum LXX Alexandri Fol, Thracia XV, Serdicae, MMIII, c.137.
    In addition, the above cases from a German group are ridiculous and is an absolute distortion of data. They are not ethnic Germans and I guess these are the reported cases of female skeletons found there, which were indicated with the most probable origin Romania and Bulgaria, mentioned in the articles on the case.

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