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Thread: Greek autosomal DNA from the Aegean and Asia Minor (Anatolia)

  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC View Post
    Your mother's and my results are almost identical. Good evidence for the genetic continuity between the South (Peloponnese) and NW Greece in particular.

    # Population Percent
    1 Caucasian 38.21
    2 European_Early_Farmers 23.34
    3 European_Hunters_Gatherers 21.19
    4 Near_East 8.81
    5 South_Central_Asian 2.66
    6 North_African 2.29
    7 East_Siberian 1.64
    8 Ancestral_Altaic 1.47
    9 Austronesian 0.26
    10 South_Indian 0.14

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) 2.05
    2 Greek_Thessaly ( ) 2.07
    3 Albanian_Tirana ( ) 2.94
    4 Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) 3.1
    5 Kosovar ( ) 4.84
    Ive figured it out. West coast mainland Greeks tend to cluster together and shift slightly west compared to other mainland Greeks. Being a Lakonian, I shift slightly towards the Caucasus compared to you.

    Alexandra's mother is closest to Messinians, west Peloponnesians and south Albanians on my dodecad k12b spreadsheet.

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Sorcelow For This Useful Post:

     Alexandra_K (07-30-2018),  ba97200 (07-30-2018),  TonyC (07-30-2018)

  3. #102
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    Greek Peloponnese
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    G2A2A

    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Ive figured it out. West coast mainland Greeks tend to cluster together and shift slightly west compared to other mainland Greeks. Being a Lakonian, I shift slightly towards the Caucasus compared to you.

    Alexandra's mother is closest to Messinians, west Peloponnesians and south Albanians on my dodecad k12b spreadsheet.
    It's great that you're keeping track of these trends.

  4. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by TonyC View Post
    It's great that you're keeping track of these trends.
    Ive used your kit to create a Messinian average (3 samples so far). If you have any more Messinian kits it would be great to have.

  5. #104
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    Greek Peloponnese
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sorcelow View Post
    Ive used your kit to create a Messinian average (3 samples so far). If you have any more Messinian kits it would be great to have.
    It's difficult because all of my cousins in the US are mixed European (English, German, Irish, etc.) and/or of mixed Greek descent; Messinian/Thessalian, Messinian/Island, etc.. I'm trying to get results from a couple of my cousins in Greece who are 100% Messinian.

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to TonyC For This Useful Post:

     Sorcelow (07-30-2018)

  7. #105
    Registered Users
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    144
    Sex
    Location
    Greece
    Ethnicity
    Greek, Vlach, Arvanite
    Nationality
    Greek
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1 -PF7263 (BY38105)
    mtDNA (M)
    A1a

    Greece Byzantine Empire
    Thank you TonyC and Sorcelow for your very interesting feedback!
    TonyC, very interesting how your scores are almost identical to my mother's! So, do you come from Messinia?
    I would like to ask you something about the inter-relation of our family scores. I have noticed a slight pattern and I am wondering how it can be possible:

    -Judging from various calculators and ethnicity estimates at different vendors I have reached the conclusion that my results always resemble a bit more those of my mother (with the significant influence from my father's side of course). For example, FTDNA has me and my mother as 100% Southeast European whereas my father gets a much richer breakdown, incl. many other ancestries. Is this possible through the process of random inheritance?

    - I have noticed that on various Gedmatch calculators (also on the K36 reports) my proximity to let's say, Slavic populations (eg. Bulgaians, Macedonians, Serbians etc.) is slightly closer than this of my mother which makes me wonder, as I would expect her as fully Northwestern Greek to exhibit this more.
    Also our myHeritage results were a bit surprizing: I got 45% Balkan and 41% Greek and my mother 30% Balkan and 60% Greek. (On Ancestry I got indicatively, 72% South Europe and 14% Eastern Europe in the past, now with the recent update, 72% Greece and the Balkans and the rest Italy). I will try posting our Eurogenes K13 below to demonstrate this slight difference.
    Can this be due to me inheriting randomly some more of this ancestry from my grandparents? (I don't have much knowledge of genetics so maybe I am thinking in the wrong way). Or can it be due to some contribution of my father? I have noticed that he has a lot of matches with people from Slavic Balkan countries and also with Albanians. At (which I consider very accurate), he shows a close proximity to Greek Macedonia and Thrace which I have inherited too, although his known origins are from Kefalonia and Kea. He recently also got a match from Greek slavophone Macedonia which makes me wonder. (He also gets 64% Europe South and 12% Eastern Europe on Ancestry. My mom hasn't tested there).

    What is your opinion about the above?

    I will post the results of Eurogenes K13 for me and my mother below:

    Me:

    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 25.85
    2 West_Med 21.44
    3 Baltic 18.45
    4 North_Atlantic 17.24
    5 West_Asian 11.72
    6 Red_Sea 3.75
    7 East_Asian 1.21


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Thessaly @ 3.535083
    2 Central_Greek @ 9.694101
    3 Bulgarian @ 10.069561
    4 East_Sicilian @ 10.949831
    5 Italian_Abruzzo @ 11.743886
    6 West_Sicilian @ 12.154628
    7 Ashkenazi @ 12.989199
    8 Romanian @ 13.123725
    9 Tuscan @ 13.700664
    10 South_Italian @ 14.492864
    11 Serbian @ 17.891434
    12 North_Italian @ 18.282969
    13 Algerian_Jewish @ 19.971699
    14 Italian_Jewish @ 20.523056
    15 Sephardic_Jewish @ 20.867893
    16 Moldavian @ 23.931921
    17 Tunisian_Jewish @ 24.510710
    18 Libyan_Jewish @ 24.778835
    19 Cyprian @ 26.615442
    20 Croatian @ 27.386101

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek_Thessaly +50% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.535083


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek_Thessaly +25% Greek_Thessaly +25% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.535083


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++
    1 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.012244
    2 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.015776
    3 Bulgarian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.063523
    4 Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.140942
    5 Ashkenazi + Kurdish_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.224751
    6 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Central_Greek + Ukrainian @ 3.227017
    7 Central_Greek + Lebanese_Druze + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.310545
    8 Bulgarian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.320990
    9 Ashkenazi + Iranian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.368610
    10 Ashkenazi + Georgian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.383014
    11 Croatian + Cyprian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.439407
    12 Bulgarian + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.441351
    13 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Belorussian + Sardinian @ 3.464798
    14 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.478173
    15 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Georgian_Jewish + Sardinian @ 3.481795
    16 Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian @ 3.483095
    17 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.487945
    18 Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.492456
    19 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Croatian + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.496960
    20 Cyprian + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian + West_Sicilian @ 3.504146

    Done.


    Kit Num: H791465
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 25.18
    2 West_Med 21.67
    3 Baltic 18.21
    4 North_Atlantic 16.97
    5 West_Asian 12.62
    6 Red_Sea 3.75
    7 East_Asian 1.20


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Thessaly @ 3.666719
    2 Central_Greek @ 9.449551
    3 Bulgarian @ 10.079420
    4 East_Sicilian @ 10.860690
    5 Italian_Abruzzo @ 11.576796
    6 West_Sicilian @ 12.273549
    7 Romanian @ 13.143967
    8 Ashkenazi @ 13.440406
    9 Tuscan @ 13.884970
    10 South_Italian @ 14.375315
    11 Serbian @ 18.004507
    12 North_Italian @ 18.399658
    13 Algerian_Jewish @ 20.174377
    14 Italian_Jewish @ 20.796219
    15 Sephardic_Jewish @ 21.003513
    16 Moldavian @ 23.899855
    17 Tunisian_Jewish @ 24.682604
    18 Libyan_Jewish @ 24.937746
    19 Cyprian @ 26.493221
    20 Croatian @ 27.444063

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Bulgarian +50% Central_Greek @ 3.605400


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Bulgarian +25% Central_Greek +25% East_Sicilian @ 3.551438


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
    1 Ashkenazi + Georgian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.652073
    2 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.689845
    3 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Georgian_Jewish + Sardinian @ 2.898541
    4 Ashkenazi + Estonian_Polish + Georgian_Jewish + Sardinian @ 3.154184
    5 Ashkenazi + Kurdish_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.164341
    6 Central_Greek + Kurdish_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.260642
    7 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Belorussian + Sardinian @ 3.278632
    8 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish_Jewish + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.278685
    9 Ashkenazi + Georgian_Jewish + Russian_Smolensk + Sardinian @ 3.314328
    10 Bulgarian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.320706
    11 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish_Jewish + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.333169
    12 Central_Greek + Iranian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.342300
    13 Bulgarian + Kurdish_Jewish + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.371904
    14 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.372509
    15 Croatian + Cyprian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.382109
    16 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian_Jewish + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.387726
    17 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.395472
    18 Ashkenazi + Iranian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.397145
    19 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Central_Greek + Ukrainian @ 3.414869
    20 Assyrian + Central_Greek + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.415889

    Done.

    My mother:

    Kit Num: H257955
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]ail.com
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 27.25
    2 West_Med 21.02
    3 North_Atlantic 17.79
    4 Baltic 17.75
    5 West_Asian 10.42
    6 Red_Sea 4.28


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Thessaly @ 3.507662
    2 Central_Greek @ 9.286932
    3 East_Sicilian @ 10.194404
    4 West_Sicilian @ 11.083889
    5 Bulgarian @ 11.130478
    6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 11.186422
    7 Ashkenazi @ 11.432377
    8 Tuscan @ 12.901045
    9 South_Italian @ 13.738965
    10 Romanian @ 13.967506
    11 North_Italian @ 17.975235
    12 Serbian @ 18.570848
    13 Algerian_Jewish @ 18.734453
    14 Italian_Jewish @ 19.124985
    15 Sephardic_Jewish @ 19.606293
    16 Tunisian_Jewish @ 23.258764
    17 Libyan_Jewish @ 23.562773
    18 Moldavian @ 24.984529
    19 Cyprian @ 26.033140
    20 Portuguese @ 27.114609

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Bulgarian @ 3.270355


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Algerian_Jewish +25% Greek_Thessaly +25% Ukrainian @ 2.905472


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
    1 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.592932
    2 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 2.879428
    3 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly @ 2.884870
    4 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian @ 2.905472
    5 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Central_Greek + Ukrainian @ 2.972260
    6 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Croatian @ 3.002342
    7 Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Ukrainian @ 3.015406
    8 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Croatian + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.022424
    9 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Moldavian @ 3.038288
    10 Central_Greek + Lebanese_Druze + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.135149
    11 Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.140564
    12 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Moldavian @ 3.154902
    13 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian @ 3.167235
    14 Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.167537
    15 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian @ 3.176802
    16 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Croatian + Italian_Jewish @ 3.204216
    17 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.208686
    18 Algerian_Jewish + Estonian_Polish + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 3.213505
    19 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Estonian_Polish @ 3.223865
    20 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Estonian_Polish + South_Italian @ 3.231649

    Done.

    Also, the ones of my father in case they can be helpful:

    Kit Num: H929792
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 26.64
    2 West_Med 21.85
    3 West_Asian 15.23
    4 North_Atlantic 15.20
    5 Baltic 12.84
    6 Red_Sea 5.38
    7 South_Asian 1.29


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Central_Greek @ 4.240367
    2 East_Sicilian @ 5.657464
    3 Greek_Thessaly @ 6.749746
    4 Italian_Abruzzo @ 8.470184
    5 South_Italian @ 8.930582
    6 West_Sicilian @ 9.422698
    7 Ashkenazi @ 10.438819
    8 Tuscan @ 14.281633
    9 Algerian_Jewish @ 15.481643
    10 Sephardic_Jewish @ 15.833378
    11 Bulgarian @ 15.870564
    12 Italian_Jewish @ 16.303778
    13 Romanian @ 18.566315
    14 Tunisian_Jewish @ 19.647219
    15 Libyan_Jewish @ 19.921827
    16 North_Italian @ 20.359680
    17 Cyprian @ 20.963547
    18 Turkish @ 22.511650
    19 Serbian @ 23.521410
    20 Lebanese_Muslim @ 24.001612

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Central_Greek +50% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.723557


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lebanese_Muslim +25% Sardinian +25% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.177477


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Assyrian + Lebanese_Muslim + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.229110
    2 Armenian + Belorussian + Samaritan + Sardinian @ 1.479503
    3 Assyrian + Lebanese_Muslim + Sardinian + South_Polish @ 1.588632
    4 Armenian + Estonian + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian @ 1.590673
    5 Assyrian + Belorussian + Lebanese_Muslim + Sardinian @ 1.598193
    6 Armenian + Belorussian + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian @ 1.638790
    7 Assyrian + Lebanese_Muslim + Russian_Smolensk + Sardinian @ 1.643698
    8 Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.662346
    9 Georgian_Jewish + Sardinian + Tunisian_Jewish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.678254
    10 Georgian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.693271
    11 Assyrian + Lebanese_Muslim + Sardinian + Ukrainian @ 1.718727
    12 Assyrian + Estonian_Polish + Lebanese_Muslim + Sardinian @ 1.742512
    13 Armenian + Estonian + Samaritan + Sardinian @ 1.787051
    14 Armenian + Polish + Samaritan + Sardinian @ 1.853056
    15 Armenian + Lebanese_Druze + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.865127
    16 Armenian + Estonian_Polish + Samaritan + Sardinian @ 1.881931
    17 Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian + Turkish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.887254
    18 Armenian + Palestinian + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.887582
    19 Azeri + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian + South_Polish @ 1.888589
    20 Georgian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.889233

    Done.
    Last edited by Administrator; 01-11-2019 at 04:42 AM. Reason: Commerial comment removed per section 1.8. Message 'Administrator' for details.

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to Alexandra_K For This Useful Post:

     kingjohn (07-30-2018)

  9. #106
    Registered Users
    Posts
    144
    Sex
    Location
    Greece
    Ethnicity
    Greek, Vlach, Arvanite
    Nationality
    Greek
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1 -PF7263 (BY38105)
    mtDNA (M)
    A1a

    Greece Byzantine Empire
    The other "paradox" is that on 23andme with 86% Balkan I get 5 dots for Greece and Albania, two for Macedonia, and one for Serbia, Croatia and Romania whereas my dad with 62% Balkan gets 5 dots for Greece and Albania, 3 dots for Macedonia and two for Serbia, Croatia and Romania. He indeed has matches from all these countries. Do you think that it is really like that or such estimates can be slightly mistaken? It has made me think he could even have had some Arvanite ancestry like my mother (both of the islands had Arvanites). And/or some relation to Northern Greek and/or even Slavic populations (see Kefalonites in Romania for example).
    Last edited by Alexandra_K; 07-30-2018 at 11:20 AM.

  10. #107
    Registered Users
    Posts
    473
    Location
    Florida Native
    Ethnicity
    Greek Peloponnese
    Nationality
    US since the 1890's
    Y-DNA (P)
    G2A2A

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandra_K View Post
    Thank you TonyC and Sorcelow for your very interesting feedback!
    TonyC, very interesting how your scores are almost identical to my mother's! So, do you come from Messinia?
    I would like to ask you something about the inter-relation of our family scores. I have noticed a slight pattern and I am wondering how it can be possible:

    -Judging from various calculators and ethnicity estimates at different vendors I have reached the conclusion that my results always resemble a bit more those of my mother (with the significant influence from my father's side of course). For example, FTDNA has me and my mother as 100% Southeast European whereas my father gets a much richer breakdown, incl. many other ancestries. Is this possible through the process of random inheritance?

    - I have noticed that on various Gedmatch calculators (also on the K36 reports) my proximity to let's say, Slavic populations (eg. Bulgaians, Macedonians, Serbians etc.) is slightly closer than this of my mother which makes me wonder, as I would expect her as fully Northwestern Greek to exhibit this more.
    Also our myHeritage results were a bit surprizing: I got 45% Balkan and 41% Greek and my mother 30% Balkan and 60% Greek. (On Ancestry I got indicatively, 72% South Europe and 14% Eastern Europe in the past, now with the recent update, 72% Greece and the Balkans and the rest Italy). I will try posting our Eurogenes K13 below to demonstrate this slight difference.
    Can this be due to me inheriting randomly some more of this ancestry from my grandparents? (I don't have much knowledge of genetics so maybe I am thinking in the wrong way). Or can it be due to some contribution of my father? I have noticed that he has a lot of matches with people from Slavic Balkan countries and also with Albanians. At (which I consider very accurate), he shows a close proximity to Greek Macedonia and Thrace which I have inherited too, although his known origins are from Kefalonia and Kea. He recently also got a match from Greek slavophone Macedonia which makes me wonder. (He also gets 64% Europe South and 12% Eastern Europe on Ancestry. My mom hasn't tested there).

    What is your opinion about the above?

    I will post the results of Eurogenes K13 for me and my mother below:

    Me:

    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 25.85
    2 West_Med 21.44
    3 Baltic 18.45
    4 North_Atlantic 17.24
    5 West_Asian 11.72
    6 Red_Sea 3.75
    7 East_Asian 1.21


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Thessaly @ 3.535083
    2 Central_Greek @ 9.694101
    3 Bulgarian @ 10.069561
    4 East_Sicilian @ 10.949831
    5 Italian_Abruzzo @ 11.743886
    6 West_Sicilian @ 12.154628
    7 Ashkenazi @ 12.989199
    8 Romanian @ 13.123725
    9 Tuscan @ 13.700664
    10 South_Italian @ 14.492864
    11 Serbian @ 17.891434
    12 North_Italian @ 18.282969
    13 Algerian_Jewish @ 19.971699
    14 Italian_Jewish @ 20.523056
    15 Sephardic_Jewish @ 20.867893
    16 Moldavian @ 23.931921
    17 Tunisian_Jewish @ 24.510710
    18 Libyan_Jewish @ 24.778835
    19 Cyprian @ 26.615442
    20 Croatian @ 27.386101

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek_Thessaly +50% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.535083


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Greek_Thessaly +25% Greek_Thessaly +25% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.535083


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++
    1 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.012244
    2 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.015776
    3 Bulgarian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.063523
    4 Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.140942
    5 Ashkenazi + Kurdish_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.224751
    6 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Central_Greek + Ukrainian @ 3.227017
    7 Central_Greek + Lebanese_Druze + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.310545
    8 Bulgarian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.320990
    9 Ashkenazi + Iranian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.368610
    10 Ashkenazi + Georgian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.383014
    11 Croatian + Cyprian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.439407
    12 Bulgarian + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.441351
    13 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Belorussian + Sardinian @ 3.464798
    14 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.478173
    15 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Georgian_Jewish + Sardinian @ 3.481795
    16 Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian @ 3.483095
    17 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.487945
    18 Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.492456
    19 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Croatian + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.496960
    20 Cyprian + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian + West_Sicilian @ 3.504146

    Done.


    Kit Num: H791465
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 25.18
    2 West_Med 21.67
    3 Baltic 18.21
    4 North_Atlantic 16.97
    5 West_Asian 12.62
    6 Red_Sea 3.75
    7 East_Asian 1.20


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Thessaly @ 3.666719
    2 Central_Greek @ 9.449551
    3 Bulgarian @ 10.079420
    4 East_Sicilian @ 10.860690
    5 Italian_Abruzzo @ 11.576796
    6 West_Sicilian @ 12.273549
    7 Romanian @ 13.143967
    8 Ashkenazi @ 13.440406
    9 Tuscan @ 13.884970
    10 South_Italian @ 14.375315
    11 Serbian @ 18.004507
    12 North_Italian @ 18.399658
    13 Algerian_Jewish @ 20.174377
    14 Italian_Jewish @ 20.796219
    15 Sephardic_Jewish @ 21.003513
    16 Moldavian @ 23.899855
    17 Tunisian_Jewish @ 24.682604
    18 Libyan_Jewish @ 24.937746
    19 Cyprian @ 26.493221
    20 Croatian @ 27.444063

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Bulgarian +50% Central_Greek @ 3.605400


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Bulgarian +25% Central_Greek +25% East_Sicilian @ 3.551438


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
    1 Ashkenazi + Georgian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.652073
    2 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.689845
    3 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Georgian_Jewish + Sardinian @ 2.898541
    4 Ashkenazi + Estonian_Polish + Georgian_Jewish + Sardinian @ 3.154184
    5 Ashkenazi + Kurdish_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.164341
    6 Central_Greek + Kurdish_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.260642
    7 Ashkenazi + Assyrian + Belorussian + Sardinian @ 3.278632
    8 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish_Jewish + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.278685
    9 Ashkenazi + Georgian_Jewish + Russian_Smolensk + Sardinian @ 3.314328
    10 Bulgarian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.320706
    11 Greek_Thessaly + Kurdish_Jewish + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.333169
    12 Central_Greek + Iranian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.342300
    13 Bulgarian + Kurdish_Jewish + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.371904
    14 Bulgarian + Central_Greek + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.372509
    15 Croatian + Cyprian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.382109
    16 Greek_Thessaly + Iranian_Jewish + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.387726
    17 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.395472
    18 Ashkenazi + Iranian_Jewish + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.397145
    19 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Central_Greek + Ukrainian @ 3.414869
    20 Assyrian + Central_Greek + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.415889

    Done.

    My mother:

    Kit Num: H257955
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 27.25
    2 West_Med 21.02
    3 North_Atlantic 17.79
    4 Baltic 17.75
    5 West_Asian 10.42
    6 Red_Sea 4.28


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Greek_Thessaly @ 3.507662
    2 Central_Greek @ 9.286932
    3 East_Sicilian @ 10.194404
    4 West_Sicilian @ 11.083889
    5 Bulgarian @ 11.130478
    6 Italian_Abruzzo @ 11.186422
    7 Ashkenazi @ 11.432377
    8 Tuscan @ 12.901045
    9 South_Italian @ 13.738965
    10 Romanian @ 13.967506
    11 North_Italian @ 17.975235
    12 Serbian @ 18.570848
    13 Algerian_Jewish @ 18.734453
    14 Italian_Jewish @ 19.124985
    15 Sephardic_Jewish @ 19.606293
    16 Tunisian_Jewish @ 23.258764
    17 Libyan_Jewish @ 23.562773
    18 Moldavian @ 24.984529
    19 Cyprian @ 26.033140
    20 Portuguese @ 27.114609

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Ashkenazi +50% Bulgarian @ 3.270355


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Algerian_Jewish +25% Greek_Thessaly +25% Ukrainian @ 2.905472


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++
    1 Ashkenazi + Lebanese_Druze + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 2.592932
    2 Ashkenazi + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly + Greek_Thessaly @ 2.879428
    3 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Bulgarian + Greek_Thessaly @ 2.884870
    4 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian @ 2.905472
    5 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Central_Greek + Ukrainian @ 2.972260
    6 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Croatian @ 3.002342
    7 Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Italian_Jewish + Ukrainian @ 3.015406
    8 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Croatian + Greek_Thessaly @ 3.022424
    9 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Moldavian @ 3.038288
    10 Central_Greek + Lebanese_Druze + Lithuanian + Sardinian @ 3.135149
    11 Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.140564
    12 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Italian_Jewish + Moldavian @ 3.154902
    13 Algerian_Jewish + Ashkenazi + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian @ 3.167235
    14 Greek_Thessaly + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian + Southwest_Russian @ 3.167537
    15 Ashkenazi + Belorussian + Lebanese_Druze + Sardinian @ 3.176802
    16 Algerian_Jewish + Bulgarian + Croatian + Italian_Jewish @ 3.204216
    17 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Greek_Thessaly + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.208686
    18 Algerian_Jewish + Estonian_Polish + South_Italian + South_Italian @ 3.213505
    19 Algerian_Jewish + Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Estonian_Polish @ 3.223865
    20 Algerian_Jewish + Central_Greek + Estonian_Polish + South_Italian @ 3.231649

    Done.

    Also, the ones of my father in case they can be helpful:

    Kit Num: H929792
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    Eurogenes K13 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    K13 Oracle ref data revised 21 Nov 2013

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 East_Med 26.64
    2 West_Med 21.85
    3 West_Asian 15.23
    4 North_Atlantic 15.20
    5 Baltic 12.84
    6 Red_Sea 5.38
    7 South_Asian 1.29


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Central_Greek @ 4.240367
    2 East_Sicilian @ 5.657464
    3 Greek_Thessaly @ 6.749746
    4 Italian_Abruzzo @ 8.470184
    5 South_Italian @ 8.930582
    6 West_Sicilian @ 9.422698
    7 Ashkenazi @ 10.438819
    8 Tuscan @ 14.281633
    9 Algerian_Jewish @ 15.481643
    10 Sephardic_Jewish @ 15.833378
    11 Bulgarian @ 15.870564
    12 Italian_Jewish @ 16.303778
    13 Romanian @ 18.566315
    14 Tunisian_Jewish @ 19.647219
    15 Libyan_Jewish @ 19.921827
    16 North_Italian @ 20.359680
    17 Cyprian @ 20.963547
    18 Turkish @ 22.511650
    19 Serbian @ 23.521410
    20 Lebanese_Muslim @ 24.001612

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Central_Greek +50% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.723557


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lebanese_Muslim +25% Sardinian +25% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.177477


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    1 Assyrian + Lebanese_Muslim + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.229110
    2 Armenian + Belorussian + Samaritan + Sardinian @ 1.479503
    3 Assyrian + Lebanese_Muslim + Sardinian + South_Polish @ 1.588632
    4 Armenian + Estonian + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian @ 1.590673
    5 Assyrian + Belorussian + Lebanese_Muslim + Sardinian @ 1.598193
    6 Armenian + Belorussian + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian @ 1.638790
    7 Assyrian + Lebanese_Muslim + Russian_Smolensk + Sardinian @ 1.643698
    8 Kurdish_Jewish + Lebanese_Muslim + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.662346
    9 Georgian_Jewish + Sardinian + Tunisian_Jewish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.678254
    10 Georgian_Jewish + Lebanese_Druze + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.693271
    11 Assyrian + Lebanese_Muslim + Sardinian + Ukrainian @ 1.718727
    12 Assyrian + Estonian_Polish + Lebanese_Muslim + Sardinian @ 1.742512
    13 Armenian + Estonian + Samaritan + Sardinian @ 1.787051
    14 Armenian + Polish + Samaritan + Sardinian @ 1.853056
    15 Armenian + Lebanese_Druze + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.865127
    16 Armenian + Estonian_Polish + Samaritan + Sardinian @ 1.881931
    17 Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian + Turkish + Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.887254
    18 Armenian + Palestinian + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.887582
    19 Azeri + Lebanese_Christian + Sardinian + South_Polish @ 1.888589
    20 Georgian_Jewish + Lebanese_Christian + Polish + Sardinian @ 1.889233

    Done.
    Yes 75% Messinian and 25% Arcadian. I believe that with Epirotes there is some continuity with the rest of the mainland. Not sure about Arvanites roots but Southern Albanians tend to cluster with mainland Greeks (less so with Macedonians I would guess);Peloponnese,Rumeli, Thessaly, Boetia and Epirus.
    Last edited by Administrator; 01-11-2019 at 04:41 AM. Reason: Commerial comment removed per section 1.8. Message 'Administrator' for details.

  11. #108
    Registered Users
    Posts
    144
    Sex
    Location
    Greece
    Ethnicity
    Greek, Vlach, Arvanite
    Nationality
    Greek
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1 -PF7263 (BY38105)
    mtDNA (M)
    A1a

    Greece Byzantine Empire
    I was in Kynouria on vacation a few days ago :-) Thank you, TonyC! It all sounds really interesting.
    My mom's family is partly Arvanite and partly Vlach and for the rest locals from the area of Ioannina.
    Do you think I am in the correct direction in explaining the above pattern concerning the reports of my family? Thank you

  12. The Following User Says Thank You to Alexandra_K For This Useful Post:

     kingjohn (07-30-2018)

  13. #109
    Banned
    Posts
    4,088
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    karius the black hair
    Nationality
    east med

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexandra_K View Post
    I was in Kynouria on vacation a few days ago :-) Thank you, TonyC! It all sounds really interesting.
    My mom's family is partly Arvanite and partly Vlach and for the rest locals from the area of Ioannina.
    Do you think I am in the correct direction in explaining the above pattern concerning the reports of my family? Thank you
    even your father need the slavic population in the 4 admixture we can see polish in the k13
    very cool results for all your family thanks for sharing

  14. #110
    Registered Users
    Posts
    144
    Sex
    Location
    Greece
    Ethnicity
    Greek, Vlach, Arvanite
    Nationality
    Greek
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1 -PF7263 (BY38105)
    mtDNA (M)
    A1a

    Greece Byzantine Empire
    You are welcome, kingjohn! Yes, even in the 3-part admixture he has Ukrainian and then in the 4-part in many instances. It's just that I am not sure how to interpret it. Does it mean he really has some Slavic admixture or it's just schematic, in a way? I wonder the same about all the components, eg. also the Jewish which is prominent as well etc.

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to Alexandra_K For This Useful Post:

     kingjohn (07-30-2018)

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