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Thread: Question on Northern Irish and Scottish DNA

  1. #1
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    Question on Northern Irish and Scottish DNA

    So I recently mapped my Eurogenes K36 results using this tool:

    http://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

    And my highest result was Northern Ireland at 91, with Scotland at 90 and the rest of Ireland at 89. So I ask, what is it that differentiates Northern Ireland from the rest of Ireland and Scotland?

    Looking it up on my own, I came across various sources touching on this study:



    Which all remark that Northern Ireland shares two distinct genetic relationships with both the Hebrides/Highlands of Scotland and the Southwest of Scotland which can bee seen on the map above. My question here would be what is the likely origin of the Southwestern Scottish element represented above by the yellow circles? One might immediately think of the ancient Britons of Strathcylde, but they apparently were the same people as the Cumbrians in Northwestern England, yet here they seem to be distinct or differentiated from Southwest Scotland.

    The claim of this website: http://www.scottishorigenes.com/news...h-scot-are-you

    is that the Southwestern Scottish element is Galwegians from Ireland who would later return during the Plantations. Any truth to this?

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    As a secondary question and more personal one, based on various autosomal tests I've run is it safe to say that, autosomally speaking, I am closest to a Hebridean/Argyll/Highland Scot? Here's some of the results:

    Dodecad:

    [1,] Argyll_1KG" "3.4087"

    Eurogenes K13:

    (Least-squares method)

    1 Orcadian @ 2.94023

    (Gaussian method)

    1 West_Scottish @ 4.235481

    And the Eurogenes K36 which placed me in Northern Ireland as mentioned.

    Finally my population mapping via Eurogenes K15:


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    I'm not sure how the mapping correlates with other things. My mix seems more in the middle between British Isles and Scandinavian on other plots, but on the K36 mapping tool I get my highest in southern Ireland (92), followed by 90 in Wales, 88 in N Ireland, Scotland (all sites), and England, and then drops to 86 in NE France, and then 85 in the Netherlands, Northern Germany, and Denmark. So I think that map makes me look more "Celtic" than I am.

    That said, the reason I am posting is that there was a long discussion on the Irish DNA Atlas that examined those kinds of questions from time to time. You might find it an interesting read: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....minary-Results

    (It's very long and unfortunately I can't direct you to the relevant parts of the discussion, although you might want to try to skip ahead to when the results were published and people were reading and interpreting them. Northern Ireland is included.)

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to msmarjoribanks For This Useful Post:

     Gwydion (07-28-2018)

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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    I'm not sure how the mapping correlates with other things. My mix seems more in the middle between British Isles and Scandinavian on other plots, but on the K36 mapping tool I get my highest in southern Ireland (92), followed by 90 in Wales, 88 in N Ireland, Scotland (all sites), and England, and then drops to 86 in NE France, and then 85 in the Netherlands, Northern Germany, and Denmark. So I think that map makes me look more "Celtic" than I am.

    That said, the reason I am posting is that there was a long discussion on the Irish DNA Atlas that examined those kinds of questions from time to time. You might find it an interesting read: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....minary-Results

    (It's very long and unfortunately I can't direct you to the relevant parts of the discussion, although you might want to try to skip ahead to when the results were published and people were reading and interpreting them. Northern Ireland is included.)
    Thanks, I have seen that thread and have been looking for relevant pieces of info and have learned a bit, though nothing definitive on what the Southwestern Scottish cluster represents specifically or what differentiates it from Cumbria, Northumberland, etc. (though it seems to have a presence in both regions) so far.

    As to the K36 mapping, using my own families results it has been largely accurate with some minor differences from other tests. My mother is mostly Irish by ancestry and the K36 mapped her highest in Ireland, but a bit lower in Ulster whereas AncestryDNA pin points her in Ulster. Of known Irish ancestors, some were indeed from Ulster but another branch was from Liscannor in County Clare so there is that. The same map placed my father most strongly in England with a pull toward Normandy/Northern France and the Low Countries, which seems to reflect both his AncestryDNA and other Gedmatch tests, though his direct paternal line is Scottish.

    I suppose I found the Northern Irish result interesting in my own case due to the aforementioned connections between Ulster and both the Highlands/Hebrides and Southwestern Scotland and that seems to agree with the other tests I mentioned in my second post, as well as my paternal origin in Scotland and my mother's Irish ancestry. Again this is why I wonder if its relatively safe to conclude based on the above tests that autosomally I fit best in the Highlands/Hebrides/Argyll/Galloway.

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