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Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (TITLES/ABSTRACTS ONLY)

  1. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    To clarify the lines downstream were always a secondary consideration.
    The primary one was L664.
    Not sure why CTS4384 is more important than Z645. Or in the downstream sense why the distribution of L664 is more important than that or Z283 or Z93. Z645 is a lot more important, frequent and diversified than Z645+ that its origin is more important. You are alone in your thoughts on the importance of CTS4385+.

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  3. #692
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    Quote Originally Posted by J Man View Post
    Do all people who carry at least one copy of the 13910 T allele ultimately descend from one common ancestor that the mutation originated in?
    Not all but most. According to the best single paper on the subject:
    ---
    Our data show that the T-13910 variant is found on two different, highly divergent haplotype backgrounds in the global populations. The first is the most common LP haplotype (LP H98) present in all populations analyzed, whereas the others (LP H8–H12), which originate from the same ancestral allelic haplotype, are found in geographically restricted populations living west of the Urals and north of the Caucasus. The global distribution pattern of LP T-13910 H98 supports the Caucasian origin of this allele. Age estimates based on different mathematical models show that the common LP T-13910 H98 allele (∼5,000–12,000 years old) is relatively older than the other geographically restricted LP alleles (∼1,400–3,000 years old).
    ...
    We also monitored the prevalence pattern of the less common LNP H87 haplotype that, on the basis of the MJ network, represents the immediate allelic haplotype on which the LP H98 mutation occurred. The highest frequencies of H87 alleles were observed among Daghestan Nogais (8%) and Hazara (7%). This allele was detected in Daghestan Nogais, Hazara, Baluch, Sindi, Brahui, Makrani Baluch, Iranians, Basques, individuals from Utah, and Finns (eastern region). From this distribution of H87, we were able to propose that the ancestral population in which the LP T-13910 H98 mutation occurred is of Caucasian origin.

    ---
    Last edited by lgmayka; 04-10-2015 at 12:11 AM.

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  5. #693
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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    Not sure why CTS4384 is more important than Z645. Or in the downstream sense why the distribution of L664 is more important than that or Z283 or Z93. Z645 is a lot more important, frequent and diversified than Z645+ that its origin is more important. You are alone in your thoughts on the importance of CTS4385+.
    Yes, initially DYS388=10, then L664, before CTS4385.
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...ll=1#post10514
    If the claim is that there was a movement from central or eastern Europe one has to explain the near absence of M458 in England. L664 get picked up just be regular sampling in England, you do not have to rely on the private databases to flush that out. Very early DYS388=10 was picked up, just its position on the SNP chain was not known. L664's pre-historic presence in NW Europe looks evident IMO...
    But that is how phylogeny works. A place with two lines is assumed to be the place of origin, unless disproved by physical evidence.
    The same logic was used by Underhill for M420.

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  7. #694
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    Merovingian graves dating back to the 6th-7th centuries - Netherlands

    I'm not sure if anyone has posted about this before. The paper is in Dutch, so I have very little idea of the details, but it looks like they are Merovingian graves dating back to the 6th-7th centuries in Borgharen, the Netherlands. A Roman villa was found on the same site. Two male samples produced Y-STR predicted results of J2a1b and J2b. Haplogroup J2 combined makes up only 2.7% of modern male samples. Hopefully a Dutch speaker can give us some clarity...

    https://www.academia.edu/10159018/He...rg_222_211-220
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 04-11-2015 at 04:05 PM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  9. #695
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    I'm not sure if anyone has posted about this before. The paper is in Dutch, so I have very little idea of the details, but it looks like they are Merovingian graves dating back to the 6th-7th centuries in Borgharen, the Netherlands. A Roman villa was found on the same site. Two males samples produced Y-STR predicted results of J2a1b and J2b. Haplogroup J2 combined makes up only 2.7% of modern male samples. Hopefully a Dutch speaker can give us some clarity...

    https://www.academia.edu/10159018/He...rg_222_211-220
    Page 121 map

    States the Avars went from Pannonia( hungaria ) to southern germany in the 6th and 7th century ................Best to get a dutchman to translate.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483 )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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  11. #696
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Hopefully a Dutch speaker can give us some clarity...
    Quote Originally Posted by vettor View Post
    Best to get a dutchman to translate.
    Robert Sanders (he is himself J2b from a Roman-Benelux area) has extracted many interesting things:
    Three J2 found at Merovingian buriel site (Roman-Frankish transitional period)
    Particularly interested in: DNA/Admixture from Historical Tyrol, Central Alps and related/connected populations; Y-DNA J2a-FGC16096, J2a-L210(xZ482), R1a-M17, R1b-U106; mtDNA J1b1b, J1c1d, U5a2b2, U5b1b1. Projects: Hidden Content , Hidden Content , J2a-PF5197, ISOGG Wiki, GenWiki (german)

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  13. #697
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    Robert Sanders (he is himself J2b from a Roman-Benelux area) has extracted many interesting things:
    Three J2 found at Merovingian buriel site (Roman-Frankish transitional period)
    ^^^ Fascinating!
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  15. #698
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    ^^^ Fascinating!
    The first one seems to be a site for foreigner and the latter one seems to be a site for locals. The J2’s are found in the local area. The paper mentions that these people including individual 15 (J2a1b) come from an area geographically similar to Southern Limburg and that ultimately their family-line may go back to outside Europe. But at the time they were considered locals. They also mention that these people were from areas in the Netherlands know as “dekzand gebieden”.
    ...

    The researchers state that the positioning of the burial field right on the main building of the Roman complex is meaningful, for instance to make a claim of ownership on the land considered to be from their ancestors through a claim of ancestry of the previous inhabitants (in this case Romans).
    Can anyone explain the reasoning behind the outside Europe comment?

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  17. #699
    It's weird to find J2a and J2b at the same site. Even if the J2a individual was presumed to be outside of Europe, what are the odds his contemporaries belonged to the same larger Y-Dna group.

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  19. #700
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    if as the paper states on page 121, it was Avars

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eurasian_Avars

    Then j2a into northern Caucasus must have arrived there no earlier than the iron-age


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483 )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-L22 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

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