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Thread: Genetic Genealogy and Ancient DNA in the News

  1. #2221
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanL View Post
    Appeal to authority? Check!
    Ad Hominem, baseless attack? Check

    Actual substance? Zero

    Now: Reich's claim in the video:

    "100% of Male lineages in Iberia were replaced by the incoming Steppe people".

    Reality:

    Olalde Bell Beaker paper:

    https://www.nature.com/articles/natu...ry-information

    Supplementary Table-1 shows 26 samples from Spain and 5 from Portugal that were analyzed. 15 had hpplogroup assignments, out of which 4 were R1b-P312, these is not 100% replacement here, nor Italy, nor China, nor anywhere. Let's continue shall we:

    Sample I0460 dated to 2500 BC-2000 BC is haplogroup I2a2a coming from Arroyal I in Burgos. Sample I6542 dated to 2500 BC-1750 BC is haplogroup F, sample I6587 dated to 2500 BC-2000 BC is haplogroup I2a2a, sample I6471 dated to 2500 BC-2000 BC is classified as haplogroup CT(xI;xG;xE), sample I4229 dated to 2336 BC-2063 BC is haplogroup I2a1a1.

    So those are contemporary samples with the arrival and subsequent expansion of the Central European Beaker in Iberia; who are clearly not R1b-P312. Moreover, we have samples from the 600 AD in the Basque Country, Aldaieta and 2/19 lineages were I-M26. So no, there was no 100% replacement rate anywhere.

    I have contacted Reich directly and challenged him on those claims, he has yet to respond. If he chooses to publish said assertion, who will be met with criticism because he will need to show a sufficiently large sample size pre and post the presumed replacement era, and he will need to explain the presence of clearly pre-Copper age haplogrups in modern day Iberians such as I-M26, G2a, etc.

    Moreover, the 40% Yamnaya claim is contradicted by the Valdiosera study which show that Bronze Age Iberians could be modeled as being ~15% Steppe like, this is replicated by other genomes that have been released from Bronze Age Iberia which show Yamnaya in the order of 10-20%, not 40% as Reich is claiming now.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/core/lw...62115fig02.jpg
    It seems you miss something. Reich's claim is "After 4500 years ago a new group: the steppe people begin to come in Iberia, and 100% of Male lineages in Iberia were replaced by the incoming Steppe people after 4000 years ago"
    Last edited by Bernard; 10-20-2018 at 04:43 PM.

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  3. #2222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    It seems you miss something. Reich's claim is "After 4500 years ago a new group: the steppe people begin to come in Iberia, and 100% of Male lineages in Iberia were replaced by the incoming Steppe people after 4000 years ago"
    And when we look at your avatar, you know what you're talking about.
    But without joking, thank you for your blog, you are the only one in France to offer a work of this quality
    My results from David Wesolowski's Ancestry Detective Service:

    West British (Britonic?) 42.3%
    Continental Northern and Eastern European 36.6%
    Central French 21.1%

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  5. #2223
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    I don't believe it
    Why not? The concept "Bell Beaker" must have been transferred to Steppe populations somehow and the Rhineland seems pretty well fit for that. We have a potentially old, 100% farmer grave buried with a Maritime beaker in Hégenheim. Not in a barrow, not crouched, if I read the Olalde Sup Info correctly. This spells contact zone to me.

  6. #2224
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernard View Post
    It seems you miss something. Reich's claim is "After 4500 years ago a new group: the steppe people begin to come in Iberia, and 100% of Male lineages in Iberia were replaced by the incoming Steppe people after 4000 years ago"
    Some (I6542 dated to 2500 BC-1750 BC is haplogroup F) of the samples that I posted above have a radio-carbon date that goes well past 4000 years ago, i.e they date from 2500 BC to 1750 BC. Nonetheless, the only way to make such a strong assertion of 100% replacement rate, is to have numerous samples from the period post 2000 BC and have all of them in the Iberian peninsula be R1b-P312, we know from modern and ancient data this is not the case. Otherwise, this would imply that all the non-R1b-P312 lineages found in modern Iberians came post-Iron Age to present. This is impossible, since Neolithic lineages such as G2a and I-M26 are found at non-trivial frequencies both in modern and some of the ancient Iberians. Reich is over-stepping in claiming 100%, and I think he will be met with the proper criticism, because the only way to make such a strong claim is to have a large enough sample size and show that all of them are R1b-P312. In the upcoming Olalde study the sample size spanning from Mesolithic down to Iron Age is 154. Thus Reich should know better than to claim that. Perhaps R1b-P312 reached majority status in the time frame of post 4000 years ago, but anyone with a descent knowledge of statistics knows the dangers of drawing conclusions from very small samples sizes. Right now what we have 4000 years in terms of Iberia is:


    Four millennia of Iberian biomolecular prehistory illustrate the impact of prehistoric migrations at the far end of Eurasia

    Table S4.1


    esp005 Cueva de los lagos/South 2.36 480.40XY1.31 [0.78-1.84] 0.0334 K1a R1b-DF27 Not C14 Bronze Age
    pir001 El Pirulejo/South 0.21 214.27XY0.77 [0.16-1.38] 0.0105 K1a13 R1b-M269 Not C14 Bronze Age

    From the study about Portugal:

    3585 ybp Monte do Gato de Cima 3 Portugal R1b1a2a1a2
    3585 ybp Torre Velha 3 Portugal R1b1a2a1a2
    3585 ybp Torre Velha 3 Portugal R1b1a2

    We also have the remains from Aldaieta Cementary dated to 600 AD, as you can see they have some lineages that belong to I, likely being I-m26.


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  8. #2225
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanL View Post
    Some (I6542 dated to 2500 BC-1750 BC is haplogroup F) of the samples that I posted above have a radio-carbon date that goes well past 4000 years ago, i.e they date from 2500 BC to 1750 BC. Nonetheless, the only way to make such a strong assertion of 100% replacement rate, is to have numerous samples from the period post 2000 BC and have all of them in the Iberian peninsula be R1b-P312, we know from modern and ancient data this is not the case. Otherwise, this would imply that all the non-R1b-P312 lineages found in modern Iberians came post-Iron Age to present. This is impossible, since Neolithic lineages such as G2a and I-M26 are found at non-trivial frequencies both in modern and some of the ancient Iberians. Reich is over-stepping in claiming 100%, and I think he will be met with the proper criticism, because the only way to make such a strong claim is to have a large enough sample size and show that all of them are R1b-P312. In the upcoming Olalde study the sample size spanning from Mesolithic down to Iron Age is 154. Thus Reich should know better than to claim that. Perhaps R1b-P312 reached majority status in the time frame of post 4000 years ago, but anyone with a descent knowledge of statistics knows the dangers of drawing conclusions from very small samples sizes. Right now what we have 4000 years in terms of Iberia is:


    Four millennia of Iberian biomolecular prehistory illustrate the impact of prehistoric migrations at the far end of Eurasia

    Table S4.1


    esp005 Cueva de los lagos/South 2.36 480.40XY1.31 [0.78-1.84] 0.0334 K1a R1b-DF27 Not C14 Bronze Age
    pir001 El Pirulejo/South 0.21 214.27XY0.77 [0.16-1.38] 0.0105 K1a13 R1b-M269 Not C14 Bronze Age

    From the study about Portugal:

    3585 ybp Monte do Gato de Cima 3 Portugal R1b1a2a1a2
    3585 ybp Torre Velha 3 Portugal R1b1a2a1a2
    3585 ybp Torre Velha 3 Portugal R1b1a2

    We also have the remains from Aldaieta Cementary dated to 600 AD, as you can see they have some lineages that belong to I, likely being I-m26.

    Sorry, but it seems obvious that probably they found only P312 After 2500 BC . But it doesn't need to have a genius to see that BB burials were the burial of élite, so, if P312 was the élite, then other lineages were under-represented and R1b was, in opposition, over-represented. The same thing we see in Central Europe: in burials élite lineages replaced older ones.

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  10. #2226
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeanL View Post
    The Central European Beaker, and pretty much all other Beakers prefer GAC and TRB ancestry to any of the sequenced to date Balkan farmer Ancestry, that puts a pretty big hole in your Carpathian Basin arrival theory. R1b-L51 lineages likely refluxed into the Carphatian basin from an area west of it not east.
    What "Carpathian Basin arrival theory"? Here's what I wrote (with the key word in bold):

    Quote Originally Posted by rms2
    I also think R1b-L51 might have arrived in the Carpathian basin with one of the earlier Kurgan waves.
    Are theories usually advanced that tentatively? I think not.

    Nevertheless, you made a good point about the Neolithic component in Kurgan Bell Beaker being closest to GAC and Swedish TRB. However, GAC extended into the steppe, and I don't think we know what CT autosomal dna looked like (or do we?).
     


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  12. #2227
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    Slightly pedantic, but note Olalde didn't exactly find that GAC, per se, was the closest match, but specifically GAC from NW Poland (Kierzkowo with lat and long), which they call Poland_LN in the final paper, with Sweden_MN Funnelbeaker a runner up.

    D-stats actually seem to show that when you pool Polish Globular Amphora Culture and Ukrainian GAC, they actually come out with less sharing less with NW Beaker samples than Scotland Neolithic or even Iberia_Chalcolithic. Examples of the relevant D-stats.

    Out of GAC Poland, GAC Ukraine, Scotland Neolithic and Iberia Chalcolithic, it looks like GAC from Poland shares the most with NW Beaker samples and GAC from Ukraine the least. This could be some purely odd statistical phenomenon but seems worthy of further academic investigation. This probably relates to why they've revised the designation from Globular Amphora to Poland_LN in the preprint to published Olalde paper (after they came across the GAC Ukraine samples that Mathieson had in his paper).

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  14. #2228
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    https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_relea...-oeo110118.php

    Oldest evidence of dairying on the East Asian Steppe

    Dairying of cattle, sheep, and goats was established in northern Mongolia by 1300 BC -- despite limited genetic interactions with Western Steppe herders

    Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History

    http://www.pnas.org/content/early/2018/10/31/1813608115

    Bronze Age population dynamics and the rise of dairy pastoralism on the eastern Eurasian steppe

    Choongwon Jeong, Shevan Wilkin, Tsend Amgalantugs, Abigail S. Bouwman, William Timothy Treal Taylor, Richard W. Hagan, Sabri Bromage, Soninkhishig Tsolmon, Christian Trachsel, Jonas Grossmann, Judith Littleton, Cheryl A. Makarewicz, John Krigbaum, Marta Burri, Ashley Scott, Ganmaa Davaasambuu, Joshua Wright, Franziska Irmer, Erdene Myagmar, Nicole Boivin, Martine Robbeets, Frank J. Rühli, Johannes Krause, Bruno Frohlich, Jessica Hendy, and Christina Warinner

    PNAS published ahead of print November 5, 2018
    https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1813608115

    Significance

    Since the Bronze Age, pastoralism has been a dominant subsistence mode on the Western steppe, but the origins of this tradition on the Eastern steppe are poorly understood. Here we investigate a putative early pastoralist population in northern Mongolia and find that dairy production was established on the Eastern steppe by 1300 BCE. Milk proteins preserved in dental calculus indicate an early focus on Western domesticated ruminants rather than local species, but genetic ancestry analysis indicates minimal admixture with Western steppe herders, suggesting that dairy pastoralism was introduced through adoption by local hunter-gatherers rather than population replacement.

    Abstract

    Recent paleogenomic studies have shown that migrations of Western steppe herders (WSH) beginning in the Eneolithic (ca. 3300–2700 BCE) profoundly transformed the genes and cultures of Europe and central Asia. Compared with Europe, however, the eastern extent of this WSH expansion is not well defined. Here we present genomic and proteomic data from 22 directly dated Late Bronze Age burials putatively associated with early pastoralism in northern Mongolia (ca. 1380–975 BCE). Genome-wide analysis reveals that they are largely descended from a population represented by Early Bronze Age hunter-gatherers in the Baikal region, with only a limited contribution (∼7%) of WSH ancestry. At the same time, however, mass spectrometry analysis of dental calculus provides direct protein evidence of bovine, sheep, and goat milk consumption in seven of nine individuals. No individuals showed molecular evidence of lactase persistence, and only one individual exhibited evidence of >10% WSH ancestry, despite the presence of WSH populations in the nearby Altai-Sayan region for more than a millennium. Unlike the spread of Neolithic farming in Europe and the expansion of Bronze Age pastoralism on the Western steppe, our results indicate that ruminant dairy pastoralism was adopted on the Eastern steppe by local hunter-gatherers through a process of cultural transmission and minimal genetic exchange with outside groups.

    Code:
    Table S4. Uniparental haplogroups of the Khövsgöl individuals. 
    We determined mitochondrial haplogroups for 19 of 20 individuals, and Y haplogroups for all 12 males.
    
    ID	Sex	MT-haplogroup	Y-haplogroup 1
    ARS001	M	D4		Q1a2a1c (Q-L334;Q-L330)
    ARS002	F	D4j5		-
    ARS003	M	U5a2d1		N1c1a (N-M178)
    ARS004	M	F2a		Q1a2 (Q-L942;Q-M346)
    ARS005	M	D4e1		Q1a2a1 (Q-L54)
    ARS006	F	C4a1a+195	-
    ARS007	M	A+152+16362	Q1a2a (Q-L475;Q-L53)
    ARS008	M	C4a2c		Q1a2a1c (Q-L330)
    ARS009	F	D5a2a		-
    ARS011	M	n/d		Q1a2 (Q-L56;Q-M346)
    ARS012	F	C4a2a1		-
    ARS013	F	C		-
    ARS014	F	C4a2c1		-
    ARS015	M	G3a		Q1a1 (Q-Y706;Q-F1096)
    ARS016	M	A+152+16362+16189	Q1a2a1c (Q-L334;Q-L330)
    ARS017	F	G2a		-
    ARS018	M	B5b1		Q1a (Q-M1117;Q-L472)
    ARS024	F	C4a1a1		-
    ARS025	M	D4b1a2a		Q1a2a (Q-L475;Q-L53)
    ARS026	M	C4a1a+195	R1a1a1b2a2a (R-Z2123)
    
    Notes: 1 Due to incomplete coverage of informative Y chromosome SNPs, Y haplogroup assignment has not gone down to the tip for some individuals. The assigned haplogroup is the most downstream one supported by the presence of derived alleles.

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    https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...674(18)31380-1 - Reconstructing the Deep Population History of Central and South America

    Highlights

    Genome-wide analysis of 49 Central and South Americans up to ∼11,000 years old
    Two previously unknown genetic exchanges between North and South America
    Distinct link between a Clovis culture-associated genome and the oldest South Americans
    Continent-wide replacement of Clovis-associated ancestry beginning at least 9,000 years ago

    Summary

    We report genome-wide ancient DNA from 49 individuals forming four parallel time transects in Belize, Brazil, the Central Andes, and the Southern Cone, each dating to at least ∼9,000 years ago. The common ancestral population radiated rapidly from just one of the two early branches that contributed to Native Americans today. We document two previously unappreciated streams of gene flow between North and South America. One affected the Central Andes by ∼4,200 years ago, while the other explains an affinity between the oldest North American genome associated with the Clovis culture and the oldest Central and South Americans from Chile, Brazil, and Belize. However, this was not the primary source for later South Americans, as the other ancient individuals derive from lineages without specific affinity to the Clovis-associated genome, suggesting a population replacement that began at least 9,000 years ago and was followed by substantial population continuity in multiple regions.

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    http://science.sciencemag.org/conten...cience.aav2621 - Early human dispersals within the Americas

    Abstract

    Studies of the peopling of the Americas have focused on the timing and number of initial migrations. Less attention has been paid to the subsequent spread of people within the Americas. We sequenced 15 ancient human genomes spanning Alaska to Patagonia; six are ≥10,000 years old (up to ~18× coverage). All are most closely related to Native Americans, including an Ancient Beringian individual, and two morphologically distinct “Paleoamericans.” We find evidence of rapid dispersal and early diversification, including previously unknown groups, as people moved south. This resulted in multiple independent, geographically uneven migrations, including one that provides clues of a Late Pleistocene Australasian genetic signal, and a later Mesoamerican-related expansion. These led to complex and dynamic population histories from North to South America.

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