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Thread: U152 in Italy -

  1. #1
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    U152 in Italy -

    Boattini, A. et al (2013) Uniparental Markers in Italy Reveal a Sex-Biased Genetic Structure and Different Historical Strata

    Link: http://www.plosone.org/article/info%...2D57BAB3AFD88B

    Unfortunately this paper only tested down to the U152*, L2 and L20 level, but there are some good takeaways, including some confirmations of data we thought we knew:

    - U152 has a north-south cline in Italy.
    - Of the 23 areas tested, Brescia in the region of Lombardy has the highest overall U152 frequency with 51%.
    - U152* also has its highest frequency in Brescia where it is 38.5%.
    - U152* makes up 62% of overall U152. As with last week's Belgium study, this number includes Z36, Z56, Z192 and U152*.
    - Unlike what we saw in the Belgium study, where L2 lineages reached about 60-70% of U152 overall, in Italy it is the opposite where it only reaches 37.4%. Of their groupings of Italian regions, L2 only outnumbers U152* in the north-east. All other regions were higher in U152*. This confirms the trend seen in the FTDNA project where L2 is highest in almost all countries except for Italy.
    - L2(xL20) frequency is highest in La Spezia in the Ligurian Sea with 25% and in Treviso in the north-east with 24.2%.
    - In Sicily, L2 makes up only 20% of U152 samples. In the last few years we have seen the Sicilian L2(xL20) frequency in the FTDNA project go from 100% down to around 66%. It may be that the earlier high frequency was just due to low sample sizes.
    - L20 is very low in the north and center (~2-3%) and is absent in the south.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    - U152* makes up 62% of overall U152.
    I noted this, and what does it mean if not that Italy is at the origin of this haplogroup, i.e. it gets the most ancient and undifferentiated haplotypes?

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    The 7,564 TMRCA for P312 seems realistic compared with some of the dates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    I noted this, and what does it mean if not that Italy is at the origin of this haplogroup, i.e. it gets the most ancient and undifferentiated haplotypes?
    I haven't seen any true U152* yet in Italy from the full sequences I have access to. The U152(xL2) have all been Z36+, Z56+, Z193+ and another unpublished group.
    Last edited by R.Rocca; 05-31-2013 at 11:13 AM.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Is this Belgium study public?

    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post

    As with last week's Belgium study, this number includes Z36, Z56, Z192 and U152*.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    I haven't seen any true U152* yet in Italy from the full sequences I have access to. The U152(xL2) have all been Z36+, Z56+, Z193+ and another unpublished group.
    By watching the “R-U152 and subclades research project” it seems that no R-U152* has been found anywhere, or am I wrong? You know that perhaps there isn’t any U152* at all, as there isn’t any P297*or L23*, because any clade has now its SNP, but it is worth, for instance, the number of clades present in a country, and, from the Boattini’s paper, Italy should be the refugium not only of R-U152, but also of E-V13, G2a-P15, J2a-M410, R-P312, R-L2 (and I don’t speak of others I have documented in my letters).

    See Table S6 of the paper.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Solothurn View Post
    Is this Belgium study public?
    Yes, but it is behind a paywall. Please see the "Private Message" I sent to you.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rathna View Post
    By watching the “R-U152 and subclades research project” it seems that no R-U152* has been found anywhere, or am I wrong? You know that perhaps there isn’t any U152* at all, as there isn’t any P297*or L23*, because any clade has now its SNP, but it is worth, for instance, the number of clades present in a country, and, from the Boattini’s paper, Italy should be the refugium not only of R-U152, but also of E-V13, G2a-P15, J2a-M410, R-P312, R-L2 (and I don’t speak of others I have documented in my letters).

    See Table S6 of the paper.
    Group A1 of our project shows U152+ L2- Z36- Z56- as being heaviest in Germany. But, there are still SNPs that are not available via FTDNA or that produce erroneous reads in Geno 2.0 that might be mixed in there as well.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard A. Rocca View Post
    Boattini, A. et al (2013) Uniparental Markers in Italy Reveal a Sex-Biased Genetic Structure and Different Historical Strata

    - Unlike what we saw in the Belgium study, where L2 lineages reached about 60-70% of U152 overall, in Italy it is the opposite where it only reaches 37.4%. Of their groupings of Italian regions, L2 only outnumbers U152* in the north-east. All other regions were higher in U152*. This confirms the trend seen in the FTDNA project where L2 is highest in almost all countries except for Italy.
    Rich,

    Switzerland seems to mirror the L2 East/U152xL2 West trend seen in Italy. Looking at Steve's map here

    https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...64849,9.459229

    and comparing it to the map here

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwAg&dur=173

    It seems the Aare and Rhone Valleys in the west are dominated by U152xL2 and the Ticino and Rhine Valleys in the east are dominated by L2.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by emmental View Post
    Rich,

    Switzerland seems to mirror the L2 East/U152xL2 West trend seen in Italy. Looking at Steve's map here

    https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid...64849,9.459229

    and comparing it to the map here

    http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...9QEwAg&dur=173

    It seems the Aare and Rhone Valleys in the west are dominated by U152xL2 and the Ticino and Rhine Valleys in the east are dominated by L2.
    Yes, the Z36 trend seen in Switzerland is similar in Italy all the way down to Tuscany where both Z36 and Z56 both seem to be more frequent than L2.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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