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Thread: Ah why not - Living DNA results

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    Ah why not - Living DNA results

    I'll follow A Norfolk L-M20's example.

    With one difference, I'm feeling too lazy to post photos of what is shown so I'll just summarize. Well not lazy, tired really. Anyways.


    23&me

    British & Irish - 79.2%
    French & German - 3.5%
    Scandinavian - 0.3%
    Broad NW - 11.7%
    South E. - 1.6%
    Iberian - 1.4%
    Finn - 1.2%
    Ashkenazi 0.4%
    Broad European 0.5%
    North African 0.1%



    FTDNA

    77% British Isles
    9% Scandinavia
    5% East European
    4% Southern European

    3% Eastern Middle Eastern
    2%



    Living DNA


    Regional:
    82% Great Britain & Ireland
    8% Europe (North and West)
    4% Europe (unassigned).
    3% Europe (South)
    2% Asia (South)
    1% Near East

    Sub-regional:

    SW Scotland & Northern Ireland - 18.9%
    Cumbria - 16.2%
    Northwest Scotland - 10.5%
    North Wales- 7.8%
    Northumbria - 6.2%
    Central England - 6.1
    Cornwall - 3.9%
    Aberdeenshire - 3.2%
    South Wales Border - 1.8%
    South Wales - 1.2%

    6.2% unassigned Great Britain & Ireland


    2% Europe (South) - Basque
    1% Europe (South) - Northern Italy
    4% Europe (North & West) - Scotland and Ireland
    3% Europe (North & West) - Scandinavia
    1% Europe (North & West) - France
    2% Asia (South) - Sindh
    1% Near East - Levant

    4% Europe (unassigned).



    Papertrail wise, I'll just do a rough summary. Family has been, over the years, ranging from low mobility to rather high mobility [Fife to Swansea in 1779 for example].

    Paternal
    60% Highland Scot/Irish
    30% generic mid to southern English
    10% Welsh

    Maternal
    40% Welsh [30% Northern, 10% southern]
    20% generic southern English
    40% Scottish



    Now there are some things that could be more accurate, but the results from Living DNA are not the sort of results I'd personally go "what the heck" about.

    Then again the problem for myself I can't say mine is a static ancestry like A Norfolk L-M20 as my ancestry was more mobile than theirs was. I'll say that I go back about the same time frame accuracy, early 1600s, as they do with their East Anglia ancestry so it makes us a good comparable.

    Both sides have widely stayed on the western side of England, likely why it says Cumbria second and Northumbria fifth. Yes I know in the what-did-your-3rd-great-grandparents-do post I mentioned some Londoners. Doesn't mean their ancestry was London nor that they stayed there.


    As for the Asian South / Near Eastern for Living DNA I am very likely inheriting the majority of that from dad though his DNA ethnicity does not/rarely [FTDNA is the only one to tag it] shows it on these bigger sites. Gedmatch catches it by degrees. The unassigned British/Irish is interesting and I wonder if some of that happens to tie with dad's ancestry itself.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calas View Post
    I'll follow A Norfolk L-M20's example.

    With one difference, I'm feeling too lazy to post photos of what is shown so I'll just summarize. Well not lazy, tired really. Anyways.


    23&me

    British & Irish - 79.2%
    French & German - 3.5%
    Scandinavian - 0.3%
    Broad NW - 11.7%
    South E. - 1.6%
    Iberian - 1.4%
    Finn - 1.2%
    Ashkenazi 0.4%
    Broad European 0.5%
    North African 0.1%



    FTDNA

    77% British Isles
    9% Scandinavia
    5% East European
    4% Southern European

    3% Eastern Middle Eastern
    2%



    Living DNA


    Regional:
    82% Great Britain & Ireland
    8% Europe (North and West)
    4% Europe (unassigned).
    3% Europe (South)
    2% Asia (South)
    1% Near East

    Sub-regional:

    SW Scotland & Northern Ireland - 18.9%
    Cumbria - 16.2%
    Northwest Scotland - 10.5%
    North Wales- 7.8%
    Northumbria - 6.2%
    Central England - 6.1
    Cornwall - 3.9%
    Aberdeenshire - 3.2%
    South Wales Border - 1.8%
    South Wales - 1.2%

    6.2% unassigned Great Britain & Ireland


    2% Europe (South) - Basque
    1% Europe (South) - Northern Italy
    4% Europe (North & West) - Scotland and Ireland
    3% Europe (North & West) - Scandinavia
    1% Europe (North & West) - France
    2% Asia (South) - Sindh
    1% Near East - Levant

    4% Europe (unassigned).



    Papertrail wise, I'll just do a rough summary. Family has been, over the years, ranging from low mobility to rather high mobility [Fife to Swansea in 1779 for example].

    Paternal
    60% Highland Scot/Irish
    30% generic mid to southern English
    10% Welsh

    Maternal
    40% Welsh [30% Northern, 10% southern]
    20% generic southern English
    40% Scottish



    Now there are some things that could be more accurate, but the results from Living DNA are not the sort of results I'd personally go "what the heck" about.

    Then again the problem for myself I can't say mine is a static ancestry like A Norfolk L-M20 as my ancestry was more mobile than theirs was. I'll say that I go back about the same time frame accuracy, early 1600s, as they do with their East Anglia ancestry so it makes us a good comparable.

    Both sides have widely stayed on the western side of England, likely why it says Cumbria second and Northumbria fifth. Yes I know in the what-did-your-3rd-great-grandparents-do post I mentioned some Londoners. Doesn't mean their ancestry was London nor that they stayed there.


    As for the Asian South / Near Eastern for Living DNA I am very likely inheriting the majority of that from dad though his DNA ethnicity does not/rarely [FTDNA is the only one to tag it] shows it on these bigger sites. Gedmatch catches it by degrees. The unassigned British/Irish is interesting and I wonder if some of that happens to tie with dad's ancestry itself.
    Thanks for posting your results, I think 10.5% NW Scotland is the highest number we've seen for that category yet- would you mind sharing which parts of Scotland your highland people came from? If you know, of course. Also, it looks like your Isles percentages add up to around 75%, were there any other categories not included in your write up?
    Last edited by sktibo; 02-09-2017 at 04:26 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Also, it looks like your Isles percentages add up to around 75%, were there any other categories not included in your write up?
    Did you include the unassigned? Your own 80.5% Isle ancestry is only 77.6% without the unassigned & 80.5% with the unassigned.

    For myself without the unassigned it's about 75%, with the unassigned it's 82%. A quotable example:

    Quote Originally Posted by A Norfolk L-M20 View Post
    Sub-regional:
    74% Great Britain & Ireland
    10% Europe (South)
    7% Europe (North and West)
    10% Europe (unassigned).

    39% East Anglia
    8% South Central England
    5% South East England
    5% Lincolnshire

    2.5% Cornwall
    2.4% North Yorkshire
    2% South England
    1.9% Devon
    1.6% Central England
    1.5% North West England
    1.3% South Yorkshire
    1.2% Northumbria

    equals 71.4%

    3.5% unassigned Great Britain & Ireland

    equals 74.9%
    Whoever did the programming for this site, however, isn't one for mathematics because even cutting a percentage out of Norfolk's Isles, they are still apparently 101% European in total.




    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Thanks for posting your results, I think 10.5% NW Scotland is the highest number we've seen for that category yet
    I was actually expecting higher so this site likely doesn't have a large legitimate Highland reference. If you swapped the SW Scottish & the NW Scottish that would be more accurate. Maybe even lacking in Scotland references as a whole as what is considered their Aberdeenshire region should be higher.


    I found that Living DNA gave me the South Asian interesting and more reason to see if I can talk dad into spending some cash. I did say only FTDNA catches it but his South Asian percentage on gedmatch is still anywhere from three to five/six times my own depending on the oracle.

    Dad does, after all, happen to have legitimate Traveller ancestry & some actual Romani ancestry on his mother's mother's paternal side. Hence why I had such a problem with the interchangable usage of gypsy, Traveller & Romani on the 110+ page Living DNA post. As I said many a time they're not interchangable and well instead of stealing the post I should have just quoted a blog where the woman mentions her disbelief [she uses a more suitable word in horror mind you] regarding the misalignment of these terms.



    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    - would you mind sharing which parts of Scotland your highland people came from? If you know, of course.
    But yes, I know where they came from. I can, as said, trace my lineage back to the early 1600s. Some lines go further. But as for where? Majority is from Inverness-shire, in and around the center of the county. But there's still enough north to tip me northerly. Then coastal central Argyll but not much from the actual islands [I've a single ancestor from the Isle of Skye for example]. The furthest into Ross & Cromarty is Strathpeffer [and no further north] but then their ancestry came from the south not the north.
    Last edited by Calas; 02-09-2017 at 03:47 PM.

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    I agree that it doesn't seem to have a very large Highland reference, especially compared to the neighboring regions. I figured that a lot of their samples must be from the west coast and islands so I figured that's what gave you that "large" number in this category. Looking at the POBI map it looks like a large empty space in the middle of Scotland... but IIRC, Living DNA has plans to get more Scottish samples in the future. Here's to hoping anyhow! Thanks for answering my questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    I agree that it doesn't seem to have a very large Highland reference, especially compared to the neighboring regions. I figured that a lot of their samples must be from the west coast and islands so I figured that's what gave you that "large" number in this category. Looking at the POBI map it looks like a large empty space in the middle of Scotland... but IIRC, Living DNA has plans to get more Scottish samples in the future. Here's to hoping anyhow! Thanks for answering my questions.
    Coastal likely. As I said I have little actual Island ancestry. But I have a bit of ancestry from west of the Loch Ness. When I get rid of this migraine, if I ever do as I get these killer headaches with storms, I'll probably do up a quick little map dotting the regions of largest ancestry.

    Regarding that big black hole in central Scotland I'd be rather curious as to how legitimate a reference population they get, if they get anything worth value.
    Last edited by Calas; 02-09-2017 at 08:44 PM.

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    I think it would be quite challenging to get the reference data that is needed due to the severe depopulation in many areas (and/or their replacement with retired Englishmen!). Old timers might however remember an early Y study by Capelli and he chose the nearest town within a 20 mile radius - for my area of interest he picked Pitlochry which still has an indigenous population. He also used Oban for the west coast.

    "For each grid point, we selected
    the closest town within a 20-mile radius. Only
    towns with 5–20,000 inhabitants were chosen.
    Individuals were, with the exception of
    one location, then selected if their paternal
    grandfather’s birthplace was within a 20-mile
    radius of the selected center."

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    Quote Originally Posted by MacUalraig View Post
    I think it would be quite challenging to get the reference data that is needed due to the severe depopulation in many areas (and/or their replacement with retired Englishmen!).
    That's another issue. An important issue that people have to remember. There was a lot of depopulation in many areas and repopulation in those or neighboring areas of Scotland with a quite different sort of person. So the researchers would have to go through with a rather fine-toothed comb to ensure that legitimate Scottish ancestry is being referenced and not using people whose grandparents just happened to have been born there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Calas View Post
    Coastal likely. As I said I have little actual Island ancestry. But I have a bit of ancestry from west of the Loch Ness. When I get rid of this migraine, if I ever do as I get these killer headaches with storms, I'll probably do up a quick little map dotting the regions of largest ancestry.

    Regarding that big black hole in central Scotland I'd be rather curious as to how legitimate a reference population they get, if they get anything worth value.
    I would absolutely love it if you would do up a map of your ancestral locations.
    I suspected that the western coastal regions would be the ones that would really show up under the NW Scotland category. I'm assuming you mean West coast of Scotland right (If i remember correctly that's where your people mostly come from?)

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    I am and aren't impressed with their Scottish references. The green triangle, which is supposed to be an odd square as I missed that last black circle, is the majority of the NW Scottish. The odd looking orange thing is everything else northerly. Background is early-1600s to mid-1500s. Accurate? Well DNA testing on various sites would prove that yes I am still rather related to locals in the area. The Highland Clearance that is rather problematic... err... let's just say wasn't quite an issue.


    Given Living DNA's breakdown I should be a bit different. It's hard to split evenly without going through with a fine tooth comb but likely 70% is considered Highlands category and 30% other northly on Living DNA. Yes I said above dad's ancestry is 60% Highland Scot/Irish and mum's is 40% Scottish. Her Scottish is about 60% Aberdeenshire/Perth and 40% Lowlands.

    Aberdeenshire
    Aberdeen and the surrounding areas of Northeast Scotland display a unique genetic signature. From hunter gathers to skilled farmers, the lives of the people in what came to be Scotland were changed forever.
    (approximately Aberdeenshire, Angus, Fife, Moray areas)

    Northwest Scotland
    Until the end of the last ice age around 12,000 years ago, what we now know as Northwestern Scotland showcased a vast and freezing landscape, with snow as far as the eye could see. This area has been changed throughout the years by migrations and kingdoms, and has a reputation for its independent, warlike tribes.
    (approximately Highland/Argyll and Bute/Stirling/Perth and Kinross areas)


    Not sure what exactly Living DNA is using for their reference points so just did a generic grouping. Red is NW Scottish & blue is Aberdeenshire.
    Last edited by Calas; 02-10-2017 at 01:07 AM.

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    Great maps Calas, thanks for posting those. based on the results we've seen I wouldn't be surprised if they haven't collected additional samples from the Scottish areas yet. Would mean NW Scotland only has 34 samples

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