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Thread: DF19 (P312>DF19) & Subclades L644, Z302, etc.

  1. #81
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    R-DF19

    Distribution of DF19i n Europe

    I haven’t seen a proper analysis of how predominant DF19 is in different countries. The FTDNA “Public Haplotree” page currently lists 902 positive tests falling under “DF19 and downstream participants”. The most common testers list their MDKA as originating from England (87), followed by Germany (85), Scotland (75) and USA (53), but this is obviously influenced by population size and each country’s interest in genealogy.

    I’ve only just realised that there is a way of normalising these numbers to reflect the number of tests undertaken in each country. As we’re all descended from the genealogical “Adam”, the earliest haplogroup listed A-PR2921 lists the total testers in each country who were positive for A-PR2921 (currently 578 of them), but handily also lists the numbers of testers in each country who fall into haplogroups downstream. Those 186,057 souls tallied in “All Downstream Participants - A-PR2921 and Downstream (Including other Letters)” represent all tests that FTDNA has done. As they are listed by country it is possible to calculate the proportion of tests in each country that were positive for any particular SNP (see DF19/A% below). Here’s the result for European DF19s:

    Country n DF19/A% P312/A% DF19/P312%
    Belgium 14 3.75 28.4 13.21
    Luxembourg 1 2.17 23.9 9.09
    Netherlands 13 1.23 14.4 8.55
    Germany 85 1.08 13.4 8.08
    Czech Republic 4 0.67 9.5 7.02
    Austria 2 0.38 9.8 3.92
    Norway 7 0.41 11.6 3.48
    Poland 4 0.14 4.4 3.15
    Denmark 2 0.33 11.5 2.82
    England 87 0.72 25.8 2.78
    Sweden 7 0.21 8.4 2.49
    Scotland 75 1.15 48.2 2.38
    Russian Federation 1 0.02 1.2 1.92
    United Kingdom 23 0.52 29.6 1.77
    Northern Ireland 8 0.80 54.2 1.48
    Wales 6 0.60 48.3 1.24
    France 12 0.43 37.9 1.13
    Switzerland 3 0.21 24.8 0.86
    Ireland 31 0.35 63.5 0.55
    Italy 2 0.07 13.3 0.51
    Portugal 1 0.12 34.2 0.36
    Tot. 388


    As the percentage of DF19+ tests in any country could be swamped by haplogroups other than P312, it seems the most useful indicator of the predominance of DF19 is the DF19/P312 ratio as shown on the map below. The Benelux countries show the greatest concentration of DF19, but the recruitment factor amongst the Verelst family accounts for some of this. The high numbers in the Benelux countries and Germany may only reflect favourable locations for relatively few descendants of DF19 to prosper after DF19 appeared some 4,500 ybp.

    DF19 % of P312.PNG

    There are also some interesting trends when plotting DF19% vs. P312% for each country as shown below. The southern European countries show a much lower proportion of DF19 than the northern countries. The countries of the British Isles fall somewhere between the two, possibly reflecting their origin from a mixture of sources. I am still pondering what it all means, but the strong trend evident in the northern countries (R-squared= 0.88) seems to me say something about relatively rapid dispersal of a coherent group from the source area.

    DF19 vs P312_annot.png

    The more distant countries in southern Europe and particularly Ireland have a much lower proportion of DF19, presumably because they were populated by haplogroups under P312 other than DF19. I have little knowledge of the possible source areas of those other haplogroups.

    Please let me know if this is all rubbish or has been analysed elsewhere.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOM View Post
    I haven’t seen a proper analysis of how predominant DF19 is in different countries. The FTDNA “Public Haplotree” page currently lists 902 positive tests falling under “DF19 and downstream participants”. The most common testers list their MDKA as originating from England (87), followed by Germany (85), Scotland (75) and USA (53), but this is obviously influenced by population size and each country’s interest in genealogy.

    I’ve only just realised that there is a way of normalising these numbers to reflect the number of tests undertaken in each country. As we’re all descended from the genealogical “Adam”, the earliest haplogroup listed A-PR2921 lists the total testers in each country who were positive for A-PR2921 (currently 578 of them), but handily also lists the numbers of testers in each country who fall into haplogroups downstream. Those 186,057 souls tallied in “All Downstream Participants - A-PR2921 and Downstream (Including other Letters)” represent all tests that FTDNA has done. As they are listed by country it is possible to calculate the proportion of tests in each country that were positive for any particular SNP (see DF19/A% below). Here’s the result for European DF19s:

    Country n DF19/A% P312/A% DF19/P312%
    Belgium 14 3.75 28.4 13.21
    Luxembourg 1 2.17 23.9 9.09
    Netherlands 13 1.23 14.4 8.55
    Germany 85 1.08 13.4 8.08
    Czech Republic 4 0.67 9.5 7.02
    Austria 2 0.38 9.8 3.92
    Norway 7 0.41 11.6 3.48
    Poland 4 0.14 4.4 3.15
    Denmark 2 0.33 11.5 2.82
    England 87 0.72 25.8 2.78
    Sweden 7 0.21 8.4 2.49
    Scotland 75 1.15 48.2 2.38
    Russian Federation 1 0.02 1.2 1.92
    United Kingdom 23 0.52 29.6 1.77
    Northern Ireland 8 0.80 54.2 1.48
    Wales 6 0.60 48.3 1.24
    France 12 0.43 37.9 1.13
    Switzerland 3 0.21 24.8 0.86
    Ireland 31 0.35 63.5 0.55
    Italy 2 0.07 13.3 0.51
    Portugal 1 0.12 34.2 0.36
    Tot. 388


    As the percentage of DF19+ tests in any country could be swamped by haplogroups other than P312, it seems the most useful indicator of the predominance of DF19 is the DF19/P312 ratio as shown on the map below. The Benelux countries show the greatest concentration of DF19, but the recruitment factor amongst the Verelst family accounts for some of this. The high numbers in the Benelux countries and Germany may only reflect favourable locations for relatively few descendants of DF19 to prosper after DF19 appeared some 4,500 ybp.

    DF19 % of P312.PNG

    There are also some interesting trends when plotting DF19% vs. P312% for each country as shown below. The southern European countries show a much lower proportion of DF19 than the northern countries. The countries of the British Isles fall somewhere between the two, possibly reflecting their origin from a mixture of sources. I am still pondering what it all means, but the strong trend evident in the northern countries (R-squared= 0.88) seems to me say something about relatively rapid dispersal of a coherent group from the source area.

    DF19 vs P312_annot.png

    The more distant countries in southern Europe and particularly Ireland have a much lower proportion of DF19, presumably because they were populated by haplogroups under P312 other than DF19. I have little knowledge of the possible source areas of those other haplogroups.

    Please let me know if this is all rubbish or has been analysed elsewhere.
    I don't think its rubbish. Unfortunately most studies surveying Ydna report U152, L21, and then P312. So its not easy to infer the exact subclade breakdown of P312. If Spain, Ireland, and Italy, then you would have to assume it is a majority of DF27. If England, France, Germany, the Low Countries, then you run into countries where DF99, DF19, come into play. Even further north into Scandinavia you have to account for L238. There are a few other groups who get lumped into P312, but they are very small in regards to modern distribution. So your conclusion is sound. Far west and South in Europe then P312 is probably DF27 in a study. Once you get back to France, the Low Countries and Germany, you would have to start replacing some DF27 with DF19 and DF99.

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  5. #83
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    P312>Z4161>DF19>DF88
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    ^^Nice!! If we ever get some Bronze or early Iron Age samples, it might help make sense of some of the confusion.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  7. #84
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    P312 sub-clades in Europe

    Thanks for your comments Webb. Using the same methodology, here's the breakdown of P312 sub-clades (sorry I don't know how to format it properly in this forum - you'll have to download it to a spreadsheet):

    Country P312 n DF19 DF27 DF99 L21 L238 U152 Total
    Albania 0 #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A
    Armenia 5 0.00 60.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 20.00 80.00
    Austria 51 3.92 9.80 1.96 9.80 1.96 58.82 86.27
    Belarus 24 0.00 41.67 0.00 8.33 0.00 45.83 95.83
    Belgium 106 13.21 27.36 0.94 15.09 0.00 30.19 86.79
    Bosnia and Herzegovina 2 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 100.00 100.00
    Bulgaria 14 0.00 28.57 0.00 35.71 0.00 28.57 92.86
    Croatia 3 0.00 0.00 0.00 33.33 0.00 33.33 66.67
    Czech Republic 57 7.02 24.56 8.77 7.02 0.00 50.88 98.25
    Denmark 71 2.82 22.54 4.23 28.17 8.45 23.94 90.14
    England 3,129 2.78 23.65 1.09 47.46 0.38 18.70 94.06
    Estonia 2 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 100.00 100.00
    Finland 66 0.00 27.27 0.00 27.27 13.64 25.76 93.94
    France 1,064 1.13 34.40 1.13 24.53 0.00 28.48 89.66
    Germany 1,052 8.08 21.20 2.76 17.11 0.19 42.11 91.44
    Greece 18 0.00 22.22 0.00 11.11 0.00 55.56 88.89
    Guernsey 4 0.00 0.00 0.00 100.00 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Hungary 53 0.00 20.75 0.00 9.43 0.00 58.49 88.68
    Iceland 4 0.00 0.00 0.00 100.00 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Ireland 5,658 0.55 5.85 0.05 88.32 0.11 3.06 97.93
    Italy 390 0.51 16.67 2.56 7.18 0.26 67.18 94.36
    Jersey 0 #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A
    Latvia 9 0.00 11.11 0.00 44.44 0.00 44.44 100.00
    Liechtenstein 3 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 100.00 100.00
    Lithuania 19 0.00 21.05 0.00 15.79 0.00 63.16 100.00
    Luxembourg 11 9.09 18.18 9.09 9.09 0.00 45.45 90.91
    Malta 6 0.00 16.67 0.00 0.00 0.00 66.67 83.33
    Moldova 1 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 100.00 0.00 100.00
    Montenegro 2 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 100.00 100.00
    Netherlands 152 8.55 29.61 0.66 24.34 0.00 26.32 89.47
    Northern Ireland 539 1.48 11.69 0.37 79.96 0.00 4.08 97.59
    Norway 201 3.48 11.94 0.00 39.30 28.36 11.44 94.53
    Poland 127 3.15 25.98 1.57 12.60 2.36 49.61 95.28
    Portugal 278 0.36 64.39 0.36 15.11 0.00 6.83 87.05
    Romania 19 0.00 10.53 0.00 10.53 0.00 63.16 84.21
    Russian Federation 52 1.92 13.46 3.85 21.15 0.00 53.85 94.23
    Sápmi (Sámi) 0 #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A
    Scotland 3,154 2.38 9.83 0.03 79.17 0.32 4.72 96.45
    Serbia 6 0.00 0.00 0.00 33.33 0.00 50.00 83.33
    Slovakia 10 0.00 20.00 10.00 10.00 0.00 60.00 100.00
    Slovenia 9 0.00 0.00 0.00 44.44 0.00 44.44 88.89
    Spain 688 0.00 61.34 0.15 12.35 0.00 7.85 81.69
    Sweden 281 2.49 23.84 1.07 32.74 15.66 21.71 97.51
    Switzerland 349 0.86 19.77 3.44 7.45 0.00 57.02 88.54
    Ukraine 37 0.00 35.14 2.70 8.11 0.00 40.54 86.49
    United Kingdom 1,302 1.77 16.82 0.77 59.14 0.69 12.29 91.47
    Wales 483 1.24 8.90 0.62 73.08 0.00 5.59 89.44
    Unknown Origin 17,232 2.60 19.63 0.31 56.96 0.31 16.21 96.02
    Total 39,518

    Of the southern European countries I highlighted with low DF19 levels, Spain and Portugal are swamped by DF27 and to a lesser extent L21. Switzerland and Italy have mostly U152 and lesser DF27. France has almost equal mixtures of DF27, U152 and L21. The Scandinavian counties have a heady brew of L21, DF27, U152 and L238. Would this imply that Scandinavia was a trading hub, or an attractive place to be conquered? It's interesting that the epicentre of DF99 appears to be Slovakia, closely followed by Luxembourg, but we are dealing with low numbers at this stage. The unsurmountable stronghold of L238 lies in Moldova (but n=1).

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  9. #85
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    DF19 sub-clades in Europe

    Using the same methodology as yesterday, here's the distribution of DF19 sub-clades in Europe:

    DF19 sub-clades (only those tested below DF19)
    Country DF19_n DF88 Z302 Z39380 Total
    Austria 1 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Belgium 12 92 8.33 0.00 100.00
    Czech Republic 4 25 75.00 0.00 100.00
    Denmark 2 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    England 78 82 15.38 2.56 100.00
    France 8 75 25.00 0.00 100.00
    Germany 74 82 17.57 0.00 100.00
    Ireland 27 70 25.93 3.70 100.00
    Italy 2 50 50.00 0.00 100.00
    Luxembourg 0 #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A
    Netherlands 11 82 18.18 0.00 100.00
    Northern Ireland 8 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Norway 5 80 20.00 0.00 100.00
    Poland 3 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Portugal 1 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Russian Federation 1 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Scotland 72 92 8.33 0.00 100.00
    Sweden 5 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Switzerland 1 0 100.00 0.00 100.00
    United Kingdom 18 83 11.11 5.56 100.00
    Wales 5 60 40.00 0.00 100.00
    Unknown Origin 287 82 15.68 2.09 100.00
    Total 625

    Note that only those men tested below DF19 are included in the distribution. For example Luxembourg has only one worthy soul who has tested as DF19+ but he has not been tested below that level.

    Where does the Z39380 sub-clade originate (formed 4,500 ybp according to Yfull)? It has only been reported in England (2 tests) the UK (1 test) and Ireland (1 test), plus another 3 with a MDKA from the USA.

    To continue the theme from yesterday's post, below is a plot of the dominant sub-clade DF88 as a percentage of DF19, versus the percentage of P312 present in each country. We don't know which of the three DF19 sub-clades formed first, but I suspect it would be the dominant sub-clade DF88. It shows a consistent cluster of the northern European countries in the top left corner while the southern European countries and the British Isles are more scattered and generally lower in DF88.

    To me that points to an origin somewhere within that group of northern countries followed by diffusion away from the source. The number of tests is a little low, but it is interesting that two of the more likely source countries, Sweden (5 tests) and Denmark (2 tests) have 100% DF88. This speculation could easily break down as more tests come in.

    DF88 vs DF19_annotated.png

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  11. #86
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    Y-DNA (P)
    P312>Z4161>DF19>DF88
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    Quote Originally Posted by GOM View Post
     
    Using the same methodology as yesterday, here's the distribution of DF19 sub-clades in Europe:

    DF19 sub-clades (only those tested below DF19)
    Country DF19_n DF88 Z302 Z39380 Total
    Austria 1 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Belgium 12 92 8.33 0.00 100.00
    Czech Republic 4 25 75.00 0.00 100.00
    Denmark 2 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    England 78 82 15.38 2.56 100.00
    France 8 75 25.00 0.00 100.00
    Germany 74 82 17.57 0.00 100.00
    Ireland 27 70 25.93 3.70 100.00
    Italy 2 50 50.00 0.00 100.00
    Luxembourg 0 #N/A #N/A #N/A #N/A
    Netherlands 11 82 18.18 0.00 100.00
    Northern Ireland 8 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Norway 5 80 20.00 0.00 100.00
    Poland 3 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Portugal 1 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Russian Federation 1 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Scotland 72 92 8.33 0.00 100.00
    Sweden 5 100 0.00 0.00 100.00
    Switzerland 1 0 100.00 0.00 100.00
    United Kingdom 18 83 11.11 5.56 100.00
    Wales 5 60 40.00 0.00 100.00
    Unknown Origin 287 82 15.68 2.09 100.00
    Total 625

    Note that only those men tested below DF19 are included in the distribution. For example Luxembourg has only one worthy soul who has tested as DF19+ but he has not been tested below that level.

    Where does the Z39380 sub-clade originate (formed 4,500 ybp according to Yfull)? It has only been reported in England (2 tests) the UK (1 test) and Ireland (1 test), plus another 3 with a MDKA from the USA.

    To continue the theme from yesterday's post, below is a plot of the dominant sub-clade DF88 as a percentage of DF19, versus the percentage of P312 present in each country. We don't know which of the three DF19 sub-clades formed first, but I suspect it would be the dominant sub-clade DF88. It shows a consistent cluster of the northern European countries in the top left corner while the southern European countries and the British Isles are more scattered and generally lower in DF88.

    To me that points to an origin somewhere within that group of northern countries followed by diffusion away from the source. The number of tests is a little low, but it is interesting that two of the more likely source countries, Sweden (5 tests) and Denmark (2 tests) have 100% DF88. This speculation could easily break down as more tests come in.

    DF88 vs DF19_annotated.png
    Besides Z39380, a couple of DF88's "sons" are almost exclusively Scottish. DF88>L1199/L1200 and DF88>Z29041. If you took these two subclades out of your DF88 chart, I think the remainder might shift even more to the north.
    I'm wondering if these didn't cross the water in late Beaker or early Bronze Age. They include Clan Grant members.

    You can see some of them to the right on this tree (easier on the FTDNA Block Tree if you can access):
    https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=183

    also:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/public...frame=yresults
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Besides Z39380, a couple of DF88's "sons" are almost exclusively Scottish. DF88>L1199/L1200 and DF88>Z29041. If you took these two subclades out of your DF88 chart, I think the remainder might shift even more to the north.
    I'm wondering if these didn't cross the water in late Beaker or early Bronze Age. They include Clan Grant members.
    Here's the distribution of the five sub-clades of DF88 reported by FTDNA (with the more commonly mentioned Z17112 and below it L644 of course falling under FGC11833):

    Sub-clades of DF88
    Country FGC11833_n FGC11833/DF88% L1200_n L1200/DF88% Z29041_n Z29041/DF88% Z43235_n Z43235/DF88% BY61838_n BY61838/DF88%
    Austria 1 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Belgium 11 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Czech Republic 1 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Denmark 2 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    England 59 95.16 2 3.23 0 0.00 0 0.00 1 1.61
    France 5 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Germany 55 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Ireland 16 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Italy 0 0.00 0 0.00 1 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Luxembourg 0 #N/A 0 #N/A 0 #N/A 0 #N/A 0 #N/A
    Netherlands 8 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Northern Ireland 5 83.33 0 0.00 1 16.67 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Norway 3 75.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 1 25.00 0 0.00
    Poland 2 66.67 0 0.00 0 0.00 1 33.33 0 0.00
    Portugal 1 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Russian Federation 1 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Scotland 28 41.79 9 13.43 30 44.78 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Sweden 5 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Switzerland 0 #N/A 0 #N/A 0 #N/A 0 #N/A 0 #N/A
    United Kingdom 13 92.86 0 0.00 1 7.14 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Wales 2 100.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Unknown Origin 217 97.75 4 1.80 1 0.45 0 0.00 0 0.00
    Total 435 15 34 2 1

    Scotland is certainly anomalously high in the two sub-clades you mentioned, higher than in any other country. Some of this though would be caused by the recruitment factor. For example there are 13 "Grants" listed under Z29041 in the DF19 FTDNA Project, and more than a few Ranneys under L1200. But 30 Scots out of 34 Europeans positive for Z29041! Something odd is happening.

    Here's a revised chart with just the FGC11833 as a proportion of DF88 versus P312:

    FGC11833 vs P312.png

    As you suggested, those countries' values without the "Scottish" sub-clades become more closely clustered. I'm not sure what that means though - after all if you keep removing the anomalous data the rest of the data set has to become "cleaner". I tried plots of just the minor sub-clades of DF88 but the numbers are too small to reveal anything meaningful at this stage.

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  14. #88
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    Y-DNA (P)
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    Please look through page two of the post at Ancient DNA sub forum where at the top of the sub forum someone released the ydna calls of 2500 samples from many different papers. This one is of note:

    R31.SG Italy_LateAntiquity.SG R1b1a1b1a1a2e2. It appears to be DF19 and I don't know if you guys know about this sample.

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  16. #89
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    Y-DNA (P)
    P312>Z4161>DF19>DF88
    mtDNA (M)
    J2a1a1e
    Y-DNA (M)
    J2a1 Z6065>Y7708>M47
    mtDNA (P)
    H1j

    United States of America Lebanon Germany United Kingdom Belgium Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    Please look through page two of the post at Ancient DNA sub forum where at the top of the sub forum someone released the ydna calls of 2500 samples from many different papers. This one is of note:

    R31.SG Italy_LateAntiquity.SG R1b1a1b1a1a2e2. It appears to be DF19 and I don't know if you guys know about this sample.
    Yeah, that's R31 (aka RMPR31) -- Mausoleo di Augusto c. 410 AD. He's a DF19>Z302 and may have been buried around the same time the Mausoleo got plundered (along with the rest of Rome) by Alaric's forces. Autosomally, he looks pretty Norwegian+British.
    Last edited by Dewsloth; 06-04-2020 at 02:00 PM.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

  17. The Following User Says Thank You to Dewsloth For This Useful Post:

     Webb (06-04-2020)

  18. #90
    Gold Class Member
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    Ethnicity
    100% European
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    Y-DNA (P)
    DF27>Z195>FGC23196
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a1a2a

    United States of America United Kingdom Germany Ireland Scotland Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Yeah, that's R31 (aka RMPR31) -- Mausoleo di Augusto c. 410 AD. He's a DF19>Z302 and may have been buried around the same time the Mausoleo got plundered (along with the rest of Rome) by Alaric's forces. Autosomally, he looks pretty Norwegian+British.
    Ok. Cool. I wasn't sure if the sample was already known to be DF19.

  19. The Following User Says Thank You to Webb For This Useful Post:

     Dewsloth (06-04-2020)

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