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Thread: Is Geno 2.0 The Best For An Autosomal Analysis? I Wanna Know My Exact Y-DNA Subtype

  1. #1

    Exclamation Is Geno 2.0 The Best For An Autosomal Analysis? I Wanna Know My Exact Y-DNA Subtype

    I am non-Jewish and I am J1-P58, I am trying to find out my exact haplogroup. This guy doesn't seem to know what is exact haplogroup subtype is, so Geno 2.0 can't tell me which J1-P58 STR subtype I am?

    http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5438216/1/

    STR haplotypes within J1-P58

    For men who tested their Y-DNA with companies such as Family Tree DNA, iGenea or Genebase, certain subclades can be easily identified by specific STR markers.

    J1-L93 (aka L92.1) and J1-L386 are both defined by DYS446=13. L93 has a DYS641 value smaller or equal to 10. L386 can be identified by YCAIIa=17. L93 is retricted to Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Oman, while L386 was found chiefly the United Arab Emirates.

    J1-Z640 (aka Z641 or Z644) is particularly common in Syria and Lebanon, but also has been found also in Turkey, Israel and in the Arabian peninsula, as well as well as in many European countries, particularly Spain. It was very probably found among the ancient Phoenicians. Z640+ members typically have DYS561=14. Its subclade L174.1 can be identifed by the STR value DYS594=11.

    J1-L817 is a major Jewish cluster, also defined by L818 and DYS392=13. It has been found a far as China. Most Jewish members belong to its subclade L816.

    J1-L823 (under FGC15940) corresponds to DYS452=30. It is is a Jewish cluster found mostly in central and eastern Europe, but also in Spain.

    J1-L1253 corresponds to DYS557>18. It appears to be limited to Britain and Ireland.

    J1-L1279 corresponds to DYS497=16. A rare subclade identified in the United Arab Emirates.

    J1-L444 is a small Arabic subclade defined by DYS531=12.
    Both L615 (found in the United Arab Emirates) and L859 (found in Iraq and Saudi Arabia) share an STR value for DYS485 around 14.

  2. #2
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    Y-DNA and autosomal DNA are two different things. The best Y-DNA testing is BigY, FGC, or Yseq WGS. Those three can be analyzed by YFull which would test known, novel, and private SNPs. Geno 2.0 only tested a limited number of known SNPs. The ISOGG tree is even more limited than it used to be so a lot of the SNPs that were posted on Anthroscape aren't showing up in the ISOGG J haplogroup page.

    In my opinion, 23andme has the best autosomal ethnicity calculator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    I am non-Jewish and I am J1-P58, I am trying to find out my exact haplogroup. This guy doesn't seem to know what is exact haplogroup subtype is, so Geno 2.0 can't tell me which J1-P58 STR subtype I am?

    http://s1.zetaboards.com/anthroscape/topic/5438216/1/

    STR haplotypes within J1-P58

    For men who tested their Y-DNA with companies such as Family Tree DNA, iGenea or Genebase, certain subclades can be easily identified by specific STR markers.

    J1-L93 (aka L92.1) and J1-L386 are both defined by DYS446=13. L93 has a DYS641 value smaller or equal to 10. L386 can be identified by YCAIIa=17. L93 is retricted to Saudi Arabia, Yemen and Oman, while L386 was found chiefly the United Arab Emirates.

    J1-Z640 (aka Z641 or Z644) is particularly common in Syria and Lebanon, but also has been found also in Turkey, Israel and in the Arabian peninsula, as well as well as in many European countries, particularly Spain. It was very probably found among the ancient Phoenicians. Z640+ members typically have DYS561=14. Its subclade L174.1 can be identifed by the STR value DYS594=11.

    J1-L817 is a major Jewish cluster, also defined by L818 and DYS392=13. It has been found a far as China. Most Jewish members belong to its subclade L816.

    J1-L823 (under FGC15940) corresponds to DYS452=30. It is is a Jewish cluster found mostly in central and eastern Europe, but also in Spain.

    J1-L1253 corresponds to DYS557>18. It appears to be limited to Britain and Ireland.

    J1-L1279 corresponds to DYS497=16. A rare subclade identified in the United Arab Emirates.

    J1-L444 is a small Arabic subclade defined by DYS531=12.
    Both L615 (found in the United Arab Emirates) and L859 (found in Iraq and Saudi Arabia) share an STR value for DYS485 around 14.
    If you are looking for autosomal results i suggest you to go for 23andme, ancestrydna, or familytreedna.
    They will give you ethnic results that will define your ethnic makeup.

    If you were solely interested for y-dna then i suggest you to go for geno 2.0

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    Quote Originally Posted by hman92 View Post
    If you were solely interested for y-dna then i suggest you to go for geno 2.0
    Geno 2.0 didn't test enough SNPs for it to be as useful as he wants it to be. These are the only SNPs downstream from J1-P58 that are tested by Geno 2.0

    L93
    FGC7
    FGC5
    FGC2
    L818
    L816

    He could take the J1-M267 Superclade Panel or strategically take specific SNPs tests at Yseq and figure out which subclade he is in and save money and time.
    Last edited by ArmandoR1b; 03-12-2017 at 11:44 AM. Reason: added J1-M267 Superclade Panel

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    Geno 2.0 didn't test enough SNPs for it to be as useful as he wants it to be. These are the only SNPs downstream from J1-P58 that are tested by Geno 2.0

    L93
    FGC7
    FGC5
    FGC2
    L818
    L816

    He could strategically take specific SNPs tests at Yseq and figure out which subclade he is in and save money and time.
    Thank you for pointing this out

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     ArmandoR1b (03-12-2017)

  9. #6
    I have done 23andme but 23andme doesn't provide an autosomal analysis but it provides you with all the raw data. Is there anything I can use for free by inputing my 23andme raw data to find out my STR haplogroup?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    I have done 23andme but 23andme doesn't provide an autosomal analysis but it provides you with all the raw data.
    23andme does do autosomal testing. They use autosomal testing for Ancestry Composition, DNA relatives, traits, and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    Is there anything I can use for free by inputing my 23andme raw data to find out my STR haplogroup?
    23andme does not do Y-DNA STR testing. Haplogroups can be predicted with STRs but they can't be proven with STRs. Only Y-DNA SNP testing can prove a haplogroup. If you want to know for sure which J1-P58 subclade you belong to you need additional SNP testing. You don't have any other options.

    The cheapest and fastest with very good customer service is Yseq. They have a J1-M267 Superclade Panel that includes 975 SNPs that are tested very reliably and the test is only $99 and you don't have to buy an STR test first like you do with FTDNA.

    STR testing could give you close matches from a genealogical timeframe but you would need a Y67 or Y111 test to find close matches that really are from a genealogical timeframe. The Y67 is $268 and you still wouldn't have proof which subclade you belong to.
    Last edited by ArmandoR1b; 03-12-2017 at 06:13 AM.

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  12. #8
    I am surprised Geno 2.0 would not be able to tell me my sub type, I have seen results for other people where it tells them theres.

    https://shop.nationalgeographic.com/...k&code=MR21432

    The picture here it looks like it says the exact STR haplotype.

  13. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chronos View Post
    I am surprised Geno 2.0 would not be able to tell me my sub type, I have seen results for other people where it tells them theres.

    https://shop.nationalgeographic.com/...k&code=MR21432

    The picture here it looks like it says the exact STR haplotype.
    That is not an STR sub type. The picture shows a person with the R-Z295 SNP subclade. STRs are different types of markers than SNPs. Geno 2.0 does not do STR testing. Only FTDNA, Yseq, and Oxford Ancestors have an option for Y-DNA STR testing. Geno 2.0 only does SNP testing like 23andme but it does more SNPs than 23andme but less than the J1-M267 Superclade Panel, BigY, FGC, or Yseq WGS.

    Here is a page that has all of the SNPs downstream from J1-P58 https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-P58/

    If you live outside of the U.S. then Geno 2.0 will only test you for the SNPs downstream from J1-P58 that I listed in post #4. I have the results of at least 6 Geno 2.0 kits from the same type of testing so I know which SNPs are tested and which are not tested.

    In the U.S. Geno 2.0 started using Helix as the testing lab and I have not seen the Y-DNA results of anyone that has had that test so I do not know how good that test is. I am pretty sure that it will not be better than the Yseq panel because Helix only tests "Paternal line (for males): Over 10,000 markers on the Y chromosome" and that is about what the Geno 2.0 Next Gen test by the FTDNA lab tested. That means the Helix test of J1-P58 SNPs is likely to be more limited than the Yseq panel. If you live in the U.S. and also want the autosomal and mtDNA results from Geno 2.0 Helix then try it out and let us know how it is. The Geno 2.0 page you linked explicitly states that Helix customers (Geno 2.0 Next Generation) cannot transfer to FTDNA and on the FAQ page they state that there currently is not a way to download the raw data. I would not give my money to a company not willing to let me download my own raw data.

    Since you already know that you are J1-P58 and the J1-M267 Superclade Panel is faster and cheaper than Geno 2.0 then it is a better Y-DNA test.
    Last edited by ArmandoR1b; 03-12-2017 at 12:08 PM. Reason: added Yseq and Oxford Ancestors. More info about Helix

  14. #10
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    Y-DNA (P)
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    Only FTDNA does Y-DNA STR testing. Geno 2.0 only does SNP testing like 23andme but it does more SNPs than 23andme but less than the J1-M267 Superclade Panel, BigY, FGC, or Yseq WGS.
    YSEQ do STR testing (as do Oxford Ancestors).
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
    WGS (Full Genomes Nov 2015, YSEQ Feb 2019, Dante Mar 2019, FGC-10X Linked Reads Apr 2019, Dante-Nanopore May 2019, Chronomics Jan 2020, Sano Genetics Feb 2020, Nebula Genomics June 2020)
    Ancestry GCs: Scots in central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland; English in Yorkshire & Pennines
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    FBIMatch: A------ (autosomal DNA) for segment matching DO NOT POST ADMIXTURE REPORTS USING MY KIT

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