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Thread: L21* (the real deal) (L21+ DF13- DF63-)

  1. #1
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    L21* (the real deal) (L21+ DF13- DF63-)

    I need to start up a thread on this. Hopefully it is not redundant. I see have a potential new member.
    Quote Originally Posted by K.O.Gran
    Great news! N90495 Passmore is DF13-! Our assumptions were correct.

  2. #2
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    I mentioned Passmore over in the DF63 thread when his DF13- result first came in. He has a DF63 test underway but no result yet. Is he expected to go DF63-?

    He lists an mdka from Devon, which will make him the most westerly of either L21* or DF63+, whichever way he goes, I believe.

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    N90495 Passmore fits with an STR signature I call X1363-219 so the chances may be he is really DF63+. However, that signature is pretty loose and has wide GDs so it is not for sure.

    That leaves the following as the true L21* people.
    Code:
    f37201	Berry	L21+ Z290+ DF13- DF63- L69- L144- L195- 3c1g	X13- uas	England, Yorkshire and Humber, West Yorkshire, Almondbury Huddersfield
    f25304	Maddox	L21+ DF13- DF63- L144-	X13- uas	France
    f26883	Tupper	L21+ DF13- DF63-	X13- uas	England, South East, West Sussex, Bury
    fN49494	(Wildes)	L21+ DF13- DF63-	X13- uas	zzzUnkOrigin
    f8814   Blancett	L21+ DF13- DF63- L144- L195-	X13-1011	zzzUnkOrigin
    f236395	Bishop	L21+ DF13- DF63-	X13-1313	England
    fN80403	Bishop	L21+ Z290+ DF13- DF63- Z2542-	X13-1313	England, London
    f94428	Meadows	L21+ Z290+ DF13- DF63- L144-	X13-1313	UK

    If we choose f94428 Meadows to represent the X13-1313 variety, the modal for these L21* folks have a GD=4 from the L21 modal @67.

    The GDs between themselves as individuals generally range up to 30 @67. The GDs between each to the L21 modal range from 8 to 18 @67.
    Last edited by Mikewww; 06-06-2013 at 03:58 PM.

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    I think we've found some new L21** folks, a Davis family. This group below has a pretty strong STR signature with L21** Maddox.

    I'm calling it variety X13-131411 with these off-modals: 385=13,14 426=11 439<=11 458>=17 576<-17 557<-17 (464=14,14,15,17)

    f25304 Maddox R1b-P312>L21** L21+ DF13- DF63- L144-
    f226438 Maddox zzL21suspect
    f117433 Davis zzL21suspect
    f178565 Davis zzL21suspect
    f36001 Davis zzL21suspect
    f15580 Davis zzL21suspect
    fN82291 Davis zzL21suspect
    f52253 Davis zzL21suspect
    f47238 Davis zzL21suspect

    They have some differences too, but with GD's in the 8-9 range at 67 these guys look like good suspects

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    L21>L226>FGC5639

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    We really need one L21+, DF13- and DF63- submission to test via the Full Genomes test. We currently have three DF13** testers but need a L21** test in order to sort out pre-DF13 SNPs from post-DF13 SNPs. L21** is probably a much smaller group than DF13** but we do not want to DF13 testers to be testing DF13 novel SNPs if they are really pre-DF13 in origin. There is a P312** submission in the testing queue as well but this is not a very good substitute for a L21** tester. Having a P312** tester will help sort out novel SNPs for any L21** tester and we have three DF13** testers as well. Here are the L21 submissions in the queue for the Full Genomes test:

    DF13* 186947 Edgecombe
    DF13* N55408 Smith
    DF13* 148326 Jost
    DF21/L658 28714 Cain
    DF21/L627 20437 Reynolds
    DF21/S190 19604 Williamson
    DF21* N3362 Maher
    DF49/DF23- 129036 Harrison
    DF49/DF23- 117117 Holladay
    DF49/M222 8999 Wilson
    DF49/M222 (2nd) Unk Unk
    DF49/M222 8999 Wilson
    DF49/Z2961* 159039 Trainor
    Z253/L226 77349 Casey
    Z253/Z2534* 233265 Le Gall
    DF41 240201 Walker
    DF41 (3rd) 176148 Duffy
    DF41 (2nd) Unk Unk
    Z251 139697 Munn
    Z251/L583 193834 Yurzditsky
    L513* 228772 Reid
    L1335/L1065 107327 Iles
    L1335/L1065 258447 Taylor
    Last edited by RobertCasey; 07-03-2013 at 04:34 PM.

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    Also add to the L21 ordered list
    Self reported in the L21 Yahoo forum, Ray Murta 205635 Z253+ Z2534-, L1308-, F4036-. Mike's variety 253-1716-11 Leinster Ireland.

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1’s father’s sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    Hello, Maddox here kit 25304. Is the genome test something that would be helpful and what would be gleaned from the results? Thanks.

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    Yikes, I saw the price. Are there any grants to help defray the cost? Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bmattox View Post
    Hello, Maddox here kit 25304. Is the genome test something that would be helpful and what would be gleaned from the results? Thanks.
    I finally got something useful accomplished re: L21*. I was able to get the Davis project admin to forward to the below a request to test for both L21 and DF13. (EDIT: New news: and 3 of these guys responded)

    47238 Theodorus Davis b1775 VA
    52253 Francis Davis, b.c.1765,SC
    178565 Abel Davis b 1799 SC d. 1866 MS
    N82291 Philip Davis, 1816- 1888
    36001 Abner Hanford Davis b c 1852 Jackson Co MS. In TX
    117433 Abner Hanford Davis 1854 Jackson CO. MS
    15580 Daniel Davis 1858 Ind < Daniel Davis 1827 Ind


    Hopefully, one will take up the tests. I think they are a potentially important group with a possible deep ancestral connection with Maddox, who is L21*.

    I have 7 Davis's and 2 Maddox's assigned to variety X13-131411. They all have 385=13,14 426=11 439<=11 458>=17 576<-17 557<-17 (464=14,14,15,17), which is a pretty strong STR signature so I think odds are good they are in the same subclade.

    However, the Maddox's also have 389b=17 520=21 572=10 while the Davis' have instead 390=23 392=14. It is not a given they are of the same subclade and this could be outstanding example of convergence. If the Davis folks end up L21*, it would be nice to know of any suspected Old World origins they have. We know Davis is a common Welsh name, but they don't have any MDKA's listed across the pond.

    Bmattox, as far as the costs of the SNP tests, I don't know of any grants or anything like that. There are occasions where people pool their money though.
    Last edited by Mikewww; 08-20-2013 at 04:00 PM.

  10. #10
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    Has anyone done any analysis on testing of phylogenetically equivalent SNPs around L21? I know some of the L21* persons have tested a lot of these. The SNPs are:
    L459 (L21)
    Z245 (L21)
    Z260 (L21)
    Z290 (L21)
    Z2542 (DF13)

    -Kai

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