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Thread: Living DNA Results Interpretation

  1. #1
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    Living DNA Results Interpretation

    Hi all

    I'm new to both this site and genetic testing in general and am in need of a bit of help in respect of some of the results of a test I've recently undertaken with LivingDNA (I hoping that this is the correct section of the forum in which to post the question).

    I can grasp the general meaning of the Halpogroups given for both my y-DNA result (R-M269) and my mtDNA result (V) and general theories of migration across Europe but am struggling to make sense of the subclade results (R-L151 and V15a respectively) and cannot seem to find any specific information about them via internet searches etc.

    The maps and breakdowns given by LivingDNA would suggest the strongest correlations being with Turkish (17%) and Spanish (10%) populations for the paternal route and Saami (42%) populations for the maternal route.

    Whilst my family tree suggests a paternal link to East Anglia dating back to the mid-18th century (and my test overview gives a 90.6% GB & Ireland result), I can understand the Turkish and Spanish links via the migration route suggested by the M269 migration route. I am, though, a bit surprised at the Saami inference given that my recent maternal history originates in Ireland.

    Any help and advice anyone can offer in respect of interpreting these results would be most welcome.

    Many thanks in advance.

    Andy
    Last edited by ajc347; 03-15-2017 at 05:53 PM.

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  3. #2
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    ^^ My West Midlands ancestry ^^
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    Hi,

    Both Ydna and mtdna stay fairly unchanged over 1000s of years. The percentages are just the countries where your haplogroups are most commonly found, they do not necessarily mean that you have ancestry from those regions. Your direct male and female ancestors would have come from continental Europe at some point (probably not recently enough to make an impact on your autosomal results) so having a haplogroup found most commonly in a continental European country is not unexpected. The results just focus on the haplogroup, not the subclades. At this point LivingDNA doesn't seem to provide any more information on the subclades.

    I have found relatively little out about my subclades too and hope someone else can provide you with more information.
    Last edited by ollie444; 03-15-2017 at 06:19 PM.

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  5. #3
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    Well L151 is a very old SNP (5kya+) which is discussed in some of the ancient DNA threads on here (if you use the site search). It dominates the western European genetic landscape. We know quite a bit about some of its sub-branches eg L21.

    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-L151/

    Most people who get into SNP testing seriously will have a much younger SNP than that as their 'terminal' or lowest level SNP/haplogroup. For example if you search the above page for my kit number YF01405 you will find it a lot lower down.
    YSEQ:#37; YFull: YF01405 (Y Elite 2013)
    WGS (Full Genomes Nov 2015, YSEQ Feb 2019, Dante Mar 2019, FGC-10X Linked Reads Apr 2019, Dante-Nanopore May 2019, Chronomics Jan 2020, Sano Genetics Feb 2020, Nebula Genomics June 2020)
    Ancestry GCs: Scots in central Scotland & Ulster, Ireland; English in Yorkshire & Pennines
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    FBIMatch: A------ (autosomal DNA) for segment matching DO NOT POST ADMIXTURE REPORTS USING MY KIT

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by ollie444 View Post
    Hi,

    Both Ydna and mtdna stay fairly unchanged over 1000s of years. The percentages are just the countries where your haplogroups are most commonly found, they do not necessarily mean that you have ancestry from those regions. Your direct male and female ancestors would have come from continental Europe at some point (probably not recently enough to make an impact on your autosomal results) so having a haplogroup found most commonly in a continental European country is not unexpected. The results just focus on the haplogroup, not the subclades. At this point LivingDNA doesn't seem to provide any more information on the subclades.

    I have found relatively little out about my subclades too and hope someone else can provide you with more information.
    It would be nice if they also provided some sort of running statistical data. IIRC Nat Geo showed what percentage of testers had that haplotype.
    Unfortunately, they didn't show the percentages of any others (or upstream results to the haplogroup level) so the report was sort of a "one hand clapping."
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  9. #5
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    Has anyone who knows they are DF27>ZZ12+ (i.e. DF27+ and negative for Z195) got a correct yDNA result from this test?

    The DF27>Z195 section of DF27 usually get recognised in these type of tests but the DF27>ZZ12 part does not. Earlier tests like this one couldn't 'see' DF27 itself or identify DF27>ZZ12 subclades. I vaguely remember unidentified DF27 getting L151 results from such chip-based SNP pack-type tests before.

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  11. #6
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    Thanks guys.

    Would I be right in thinking that there is a potential that I could end up testing positive for another (or number of other) SNP's (such as L11, L52, P310, P311, S127, S128 and/or S129 for example) which are listed on the same line as L151 and that the reason that they may not be showing is a lack of sensitivity in the test that LivingDNA uses?

    I'm presuming that DF27 would need a positive test for P312, Z40481, and ZZ11 as well and that these are not included in the LivingDNA test?

    Apologies for all of the questions but, as I'm sure you have already realised, I am very, very new to this.
    Last edited by ajc347; 03-15-2017 at 11:33 PM.

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  13. #7
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    Following a very helpful discussion with Maciamo on Eupedia.com, I contacted LivingDNA this morning in order to query the Y-DNA result of my test and have just received a very helpful reply back from them.

    They confirmed that my test was S21/U106 negative, P312/S116 negative, and CTS4528/S1200 negative.

    LivingDNA indicated that they don't test for A8051 or DF100/S1194 (but have confirmed a S1200- result).

    Given this, it looks likely that A8051 may be a potential match and would explain why the test reported L151 as the terminal SNP.

    I've been really impressed with the customer service offered by LivingDNA in helping deal with this. It took a single email request from me and I had a definitive answer less than 6 hours later.

    The last 48 hours have proven to be massive learning curve and have been both enlightening and educational given the overall results from both my Y-DNA and mtDNA tests.

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  15. #8
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    I am sure that you will have already read the Eupedia page on mtDNA V http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...l#distribution but here is the link in case you haven't?
    Maciamo suggests pre Neolithic hunter gatherers and he is probably right in that. MtDNA mutations are a lot slower than Y so are often less geographically focussed, and of course the women did not ride into new areas and conquer it, killing the original men.
    Image “Westray wifie” replica of Neolithic figurine Hidden Content
    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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  17. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by ajc347 View Post
    Would I be right in thinking that there is a potential that I could end up testing positive for another (or number of other) SNP's (such as L11, L52, P310, P311, S127, S128 and/or S129 for example) which are listed on the same line as L151 and that the reason that they may not be showing is a lack of sensitivity in the test that LivingDNA uses?
    Whilst the LivingDNA test is a good combined test, it does not go that deep in the Y tree to your terminal SNP; it depends on what you want to find out/what your objectives are. A popular choice is Family Tree DNA for dedicated tests on the Y. You have to do an STR test with them first before any SNP testing (thus Y37/Y67/Y111). I went for the Y111 test (as I'm impatient but could have ended up with no DNA matches at that level but thankfully I did). My main objective was to find out what my surname would be and to receive DNA matches on the Y but then became interested in finding out exactly where I am on the Y-Tree. The STR test only predicts a haplogroup (I suspect with you, it will just be R-M269) but also gives STR results for the level you've chosen and matches. By reviewing the haplogroup/sub-clade assignments of my matches, I was then able to identify that I was likely R-L226; I confirmed this by joining a relevant Haplogroup Project at FTDNA and got testing advice (my STR results also had a signature indicating R-L226 also). I then did an R-L226 SNP pack which tested against a number of known SNPs downstream and I now have my terminal SNP of FGC12290, which is as far as I can get on the known tree. By going further down, I found I was in an interesting group called Irish Type III; I could not have found that from my LivingDNA level.

    New branches get created when a Next Generation Sequencing test (such as BigY at Family Tree DNA) are done (or Whole Genome Sequencing) and new SNPs are found in 2 or more people (I think!). The tree is expanding every year. Family Tree DNA have different projects you can join based on geography/surname/haplogroup etc, and these are great for comparing results and getting advice. I opted for the Y-Elite 2.1 test from Full Genomes Corporation rather than Family Tree DNA BigY (as it covers more of the Y), so hopefully at some point, I may be in a new branch at some point (I'm still waiting for results - it takes a while). Another company that I have heard of that does NGS is Y-Seq. Here is the ISSOG page on Y-DNA testing with a lot of links to articles that may help? https://isogg.org/wiki/Y_chromosome_DNA_tests. The current ISSOG Y-DNA tree is here: https://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNATreeTrunk.html

    Btw, I only did my first Y-DNA test the second half of last year. At first it was like a foreign language but I'm understanding it a bit better now. Good luck!
    Last edited by AntG; 04-08-2017 at 11:18 AM.

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  19. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    I am sure that you will have already read the Eupedia page on mtDNA V http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplog...l#distribution but here is the link in case you haven't?
    Maciamo suggests pre Neolithic hunter gatherers and he is probably right in that. MtDNA mutations are a lot slower than Y so are often less geographically focussed, and of course the women did not ride into new areas and conquer it, killing the original men.
    Am I right by saying mtDNA is also a lot smaller than the Y, so there is less of it to mutate also?
    Last edited by AntG; 04-08-2017 at 11:59 AM.

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