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Thread: X Chromosome ethnicities?

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    23andMe is the only X chromosome ancestry source I have.

    One of mine is British Isles (good bet that's from my dad, since his mother's ancestry is almost all early colonial American from the British Isles) and the other is about a third British Isles and a third unidentified NW Europe (any part from my mom's dad would have been all Swedish, in fact, since his mother was 100% Swedish, and my mom's mom's part would have been a mix of English/Scots/Irish/German).
    They updated mine, and now one is all British and Irish, and the other is roughly 40% unidentified NW Europe and 60% Scandinavian. My mother's father's mother (the source of one of her X chromosomes) was 100% Swedish, so that makes sense, and I know I have a significant X match with a 2nd cousin whose father's mother was the same g-grandmother.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nino90 View Post
    I just checked mine. It was all "French and German" With some Sub-Saharan African(I got 0.1%).

    Is this real? I mean my mother is 100 % Swedish.
    Is this 23andMe? Or are you doing it with Gedmatch? Assuming 23andMe, does it look like some of your Swedish is being reported as French and German? (I know some of the Italian probably gets put in those categories.)

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  4. #43
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    One of mine is all Eastern European. The other is Broadly Northwestern Europe, Greek & Balkan, with some Broadly European.
    Maternal Grandfather's Y Line: J-ZS1711
    Maternal Grandfather's mtDNA: K2b1
    Paternal Grandmother’s mtDNA: U5a1

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  6. #44
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    According to 23andme I am 92% Southern European and only 7.5% Western Asian. My X Chromosome though is Western Asian.

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  8. #45
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    According to 23&me, my mother has one X 100% Irish&British, and the other one a mixe of French&German and broadly NW. Mine is 100% Irish&British. Did I inherit the 100% Irish&British, without cross-over? Or the assignation of ethnicities to X segments is not very reliable? Your choice. Of course, I'm phased to my mother.

    X.jpg

    edit: for laugh, according to FTDNA I have an exact X-match (which is of course impossible) with a man named Tatu Tör***änen, who is ... Finnish.
    CaptureTatu.JPG
    There are indeed funny things with X chromosomes.
    Last edited by anglesqueville; 04-28-2019 at 09:32 AM.
    En North alom, de North venom
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  10. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    According to 23&me, my mother has one X 100% Irish&British, and the other one a mixe of French&German and broadly NW. Mine is 100% Irish&British. Did I inherit the 100% Irish&British, without cross-over? Or the assignation of ethnicities to X segments is not very reliable? Your choice. Of course, I'm phased to my mother.

    X.jpg

    edit: for laugh, according to FTDNA I have an exact X-match (which is of course impossible) with a man named Tatu Tör***änen, who is ... Finnish.
    CaptureTatu.JPG
    There are indeed funny things with X chromosomes.
    In most respects, the X chromosome actually behaves like any similar-sized autosome whenever it can. By "whenever it can", I mean that since a man has only one X chromosome it can't recombine before being passed on. Effectively, it's as if his daughters inherited their paternal X chromosome directly from their paternal grandmother.

    Of course, that chromosome could be a recombination of the X chromosomes from both of the great grandparents on that side. (Or it could be from just one of them.)

    Two of my own siblings each inherited an X chromosome from our mother that includes DNA only from her father. It isn't unusual for sisters to have one identical X chromosome -- in fact, if they have the same father they always will -- but it's less common for a brother and sister to have an identical X, but these two do. That wouldn't necessarily mean it's just from one grandparent -- though it would need to have identical crossovers if it weren't -- but I've been able to confirm that all of the X chromosome matches my siblings have on this chromosome are to relatives of our paternal grandfather.

    I also have an X chromosome that matches theirs pretty closely, except that mine has 20 cM surrounding the centromere that came from our maternal grandmother. Everywhere else I match these two siblings and we all have the same matches to others. In one case, though, we all share a match that extends right through this 20 cM region -- for my siblings, but not for me. In my case, it's two segments. One is on each side of the 20 cM "gap".

    However, if your mother doesn't have a tested parent, you can't be sure of the assignment of 100% British & Irish to one X chromosome and the French & German and Northwestern European to the other. It's possible, you just can't tell for sure.

    My understanding, though, is that in either Brittany or Normandy it wouldn't be surprising to show quite a bit of "British & Irish" DNA. So the way 23andMe is showing your mother's X chromosomes could be correct; there's just no way to be sure. If it is correct, then it would perhaps suggest that you inherited your X chromosome from just one of your mother's parents. Unfortunately, the only way I think you could determine that is if you have enough matches on your X chromosome that they collectively span the chromosome, and all of the matches can be traced to the same side of your mother's family.

    As for there being "funny things with X chromosomes", that's certainly true. For one thing, we have a lot few X-chromosome ancestors than autosomal ancestors. If you were to go back 10 generations, you'd find that you could have as many as 1,024 different ancestors in that generation (2^10). You probably won't, because of pedigree collapse, but this is the maximum number possible.

    For the maximum number of possible X chromosome ancestors, though, you have to follow the Fibonacci sequence. You begin with 1, since you're male, so it's (1), 1, 2, 3, 5, 8, 13, 21, 34, 55, 89. Again, this is only the maximum possible number. The actual number could be quite a bit lower. For example, since my brother's X chromosome all came from our maternal grandfather, he can actually begin his there. So instead of my brother's number being 89, it can't be more than 34.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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  12. #47
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    geebee: about my mother's Irish&Brish X chromosome, it's not really surprising as her father was half British (northern Scotland, from a family with roots mostly in Orkney and Shetland). I presume it's for the same reason that 23&me gives her dots (and me also btw) in Britain only (mostly in Scotland and Northern England). No, what surprised me is the apparent lack of cross-over in the transmission of my own chromosome X. I presume that the only explanation is the uncertainty of ethnic assignation inside NW Europe. Of course, my total ftdna X-match with a Finnish guy (I have many Finnish relatives on ftdna, all through my father's line, but it's another story) is obviously a bug of their database. I wanted to signal it to their staff, but it's still on my to-do-list.
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  13. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    geebee: about my mother's Irish&Brish X chromosome, it's not really surprising as her father was half British (northern Scotland, from a family with roots mostly in Orkney and Shetland). I presume it's for the same reason that 23&me gives her dots (and me also btw) in Britain only (mostly in Scotland and Northern England). No, what surprised me is the apparent lack of cross-over in the transmission of my own chromosome X. I presume that the only explanation is the uncertainty of ethnic assignation inside NW Europe. Of course, my total ftdna X-match with a Finnish guy (I have many Finnish relatives on ftdna, all through my father's line, but it's another story) is obviously a bug of their database. I wanted to signal it to their staff, but it's still on my to-do-list.
    Okay. I'd just say that if it really is the case that she transmitted an unrecombined X chromosome to you, that really isn't too unusual. I don't know what proportion of the time this happens, but it isn't "rare". In fact, it doesn't just happen for the X chromosome. Sometimes, even autosomes will be passed on without any apparent recombination.

    As a specific example, my daughter's paternal chromosomes 9, 13, and 21 appear to be perfect matches for my own paternal chromosomes 9, 13, 21 -- meaning there was no recombination with my maternal copy of each of these chromosomes.

    On the other side, my daughter doesn't match my father at all on chromosomes 7, 15, 17, 18, 22 -- or, of course, the X chromosome. So it looks as if these 6 chromosomes are all from my mother, with no crossovers with the copies from my father.

    That makes 9 out of 23 chromosomes passed on unrecombined from me to my daughter. Even if you exclude the X chromosome -- where of course I only have one copy -- that still means it's a bit more than 1/3 of the chromosomes. My father has four other tested grandchildren, and all but one of them appears to have inherited at least one unrecombined autosome. My oldest brother's daughter completely matches her paternal grandfather on two autosomes (16 and 20), and shares nothing at all with him on chromosomes 19 and 21.

    Also, because she inherited her father's X chromosome, I match her on the X in exactly the same way I match her father -- for all but that 20 cM region around the centromere that I mentioned in a previous post. Likewise, my daughter matches this cousin on the X the same way I match my brother.

    Since one of my sisters matches my brother's entire X, that sister also matches our brother's daughter's paternal X completely. Presumably, if we could test my mother's father, we'd see that my niece matches him completely on the X chromosome, so we'd have a case of an X being passed on from great grandparent to great grandchild with no change. Since my niece has 5 children, it's entirely possible that one of these could have an "intact" X chromosome that has experience no recombination since their great, great grandfather -- which also means it would all come from the same 3rd great grandmother, though it could be from both of her parents.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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  15. #49
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    I don't know what proportion of the time this happens, but it isn't "rare". In fact, it doesn't just happen for the X chromosome. Sometimes, even autosomes will be passed on without any apparent recombination.
    Really? It's new to me, I was convinced that any pair of chromosomes were affected by the cross-over at each generation. Very interesting. Thanks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by anglesqueville View Post
    Really? It's new to me, I was convinced that any pair of chromosomes were affected by the cross-over at each generation. Very interesting. Thanks.
    Blaine Bettinger did a survey on this topic and claimed 14% showed zero recombination on the X:

    https://thegeneticgenealogist.com/wp...n_Preprint.pdf
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